Misogyny and Racism in STU

[Farscape One]

Fair point about Athena.

But BSG swapping genders with multiple established characters... I actually thought it was a smart idea. To me, it was giving a more equal balance in the cast. I don't see how that can be considered anything but a good thing.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I'm usually bothered by gender-swapping characters (or anything-swapping them), because after a certain point I can't associate them with the original character anymore and it feels like the author's trying get me to transfer my emotional attachment to a character over to this new person they've invented.

But Battlestar Galactica 2004 basically just kept the names and jobs and very little else, and half the time they didn't even keep the names, so I was able to treat them all as separate people right from the start. It was very much doing its own thing.

 

[Farscape One]

Moore's BSG was definitely its own thing, and for the better. While I enjoyed the original BSG, I just could never buy that these people, who just had all their colonies and loved ones wiped out (essentially almost wiping out the entire human race), felt the loss or danger of such a thing happening when you have a casino ship, everyone playing Pyramid, and the pilots always fairly cheerful. (I understand the era BSG aired wouldn't have allowed that kind of despair and anguish to show even sometimes, which is why I give it a pass.) At least Moore's BSG was much more realistic about the premise of the show.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I enjoyed the character, but I figure the writers of Discovery would probably have major issues with her.

Why?

 

[Oddish]

Even though I only saw bits of Discovery, I think it could have done Tasha justice the way TNG (bound by stricter content rules) couldn't. Made her scarier, more dangerous, and put a lot more bad words in her dialogue.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

(I understand the era BSG aired wouldn't have allowed that kind of despair and anguish to show even sometimes,

Truth be told, 1970s TV had a torrential flood of episodes and TV movies with the two emotional states you mentioned, and far darker themes. That's one of the hallmarks of TV in that decade. The problem with OS-BSG was that it was a paper-thin Glen Larson series of the era, which had a hard-on for ripping off a certain sci-fi film to the degree that the most important part of the series were the trappings of said certain sci-fi film. Larson, et al., had no interest in building characters any viewer would feel even a modicum of empathy for, but were more concerned with "When is Starbuck going to fly the Viper again?" You could substitute the leads from BSG with the duo from C.H.I.P.s (still riding motorcycles) and no one would have blinked an eye.

 

[Kor]

Well, with 1000+ people onboard, Troi probably had plenty of work with assorted redshirts, civilians, working parents, angsty teens, and the odd orphan who disappeared through the cracks. Having Worf for a parent probably gave Alexander all manner of neuroses.

I don't think we ever really saw any of them, but there was at least one mention of other psychologists on the Ent-D, in TNG episode "The Loss." Dr. Crusher told Counsellor Troi, "There are several people on board who have degrees in psychology, who are qualified therapists."
But that kind of came across as something Troi may not have been aware of, like there just happened to be some qualified psychologists on board (as 24th-century folks tend to be polymaths), and they weren't actually assigned to be ship's counsellors.

Kor

 

[Oddish]

Ezri Tigan was an assistant counselor, before getting joined. Maybe Troi had an underling or two. Especially for specialized purposes: combat trauma, children, xeno-psychology, etc.

 

[Nyotarules]

Ezri Tigan was an assistant counselor, before getting joined. Maybe Troi had an underling or two. Especially for specialized purposes: combat trauma, children, xeno-psychology, etc.

Yep there should be a counsellor for each shift, anything can happen in space.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Yep there should be a counsellor for each shift, anything can happen in space.

A thousand people on the ship.

Maybe 800 of them want one hour a week.

Freaking Hippies.

40 x 20 = 800

10 x 80 = 800

200 x 4 = 800

1 x 800 = 800.

They either had a lot of councillors who did fuck all, or a hand full worked to the bone.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yep there should be a counsellor for each shift, anything can happen in space.

"All this science I don't understand. It's just my job five days a week..."

 

[Richard S. Ta]

The problem with OS-BSG was that it was a paper-thin Glen Larson series of the era, which had a hard-on for ripping off a certain sci-fi film to the degree that the most important part of the series were the trappings of said certain sci-fi film. Larson, et al., had no interest in building characters any viewer would feel even a modicum of empathy for, but were more concerned with "When is Starbuck going to fly the Viper again?"

Indeed. The original BSG is so thin, hence why Moore could keep the very basic beats of it and do his own thing.

I think you're right about TV of the era not shying from despair and torment as well. To take an example, the finale of M*A*S*H* contains some very, very strong stuff. I still find it difficult to watch.

 

[Sci]

Ezri Tigan was an assistant counselor, before getting joined. Maybe Troi had an underling or two. Especially for specialized purposes: combat trauma, children, xeno-psychology, etc.

Honestly, Troi should have had an entire department of mental health professionals working under her and she herself should have been reporting to Crusher as chief medical officer. The idea that the head of mental health services would also be a bridge officer and part of the senior command staff is just a bit hard to swallow.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Star Trek has always been as bad about it's health workers as it is about it's transporter rooms. There's usually several of them, until the plot requires only one.

 

[Oddish]

Honestly, Troi should have had an entire department of mental health professionals working under her and she herself should have been reporting to Crusher as chief medical officer. The idea that the head of mental health services would also be a bridge officer and part of the senior command staff is just a bit hard to swallow.

I personally think that every Trek vessel should have a Betazoid on the bridge. Not as ship's counselor, but to advise the captain and negotiate when necessary. The ability to detect lies and emotions is to valuable not to use.

 

[Pauln6]

I personally think that every Trek vessel should have a Betazoid on the bridge. Not as ship's counselor, but to advise the captain and negotiate when necessary. The ability to detect lies and emotions is to valuable not to use.

The more I have learned about how thoughts and emotions come into being, the less plausible betazoid empathy becomes. Emotional states are triggered by hormones which activate certain evolutionary responses in the brain. I can understand that members of the same species might be able to sense and interpret signals in someone's brain (albeit you would probably have to train to understand a particular person's thoughts) but I struggle to see how you could scale that up to a different species with a different evolution path.

 

[Oddish]

The more I have learned about how thoughts and emotions come into being, the less plausible betazoid empathy becomes. Emotional states are triggered by hormones which activate certain evolutionary responses in the brain. I can understand that members of the same species might be able to sense and interpret signals in someone's brain (albeit you would probably have to train to understand a particular person's thoughts) but I struggle to see how you could scale that up to a different species with a different evolution path.

Yeah, but by that stretch, we shouldn't be reproductively compatible with other species either. Genetically, humans would have more in common with hippopotamuses than Vulcans.

 

[Pauln6]

Yeah, but by that stretch, we shouldn't be reproductively compatible with other species either. Genetically, humans would have more in common with hippopotamuses than Vulcans.

This, this, a thousand times this. Amanda couldn't really have carried a child with a different blood chemistry to term. Romulans and Vulcans I will buy, but I grind my teeth every time we get another alien/human hybrid.

 

[Oddish]

Romulans and Vulcans I will buy, but I grind my teeth every time we get another alien/human hybrid.

Especially one that was conceived without serious medical assistance.

 

[Unicron]

I personally think that every Trek vessel should have a Betazoid on the bridge. Not as ship's counselor, but to advise the captain and negotiate when necessary. The ability to detect lies and emotions is to valuable not to use.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the role of ship's counselor that eventually became Troi was originally intended to be this sort of position, because the new Enterprise was going to spend a lot of time exploring uncharted space and being away from core worlds like Earth (which is also why it had family accommodations onboard). The captain would have had a sort of political officer who could advise on things like the Prime Directive or first contact, if such skills were needed. I sometimes think it would have been interesting if this role had made it into the series.