Misogyny and Racism in STU
- Thread starter thewanderingjack
- Start date
I did not know the timeline about them dating. It just goes to show how fake news can become accepted truth!
I totally agree about Kes. Her abilities were so nebulous that they could have gone anywhere. I do think Talia Winters was woefully under-used as well in B5 but Voyager could easily have used Kes about as much as that. They did 5 stories with Ro in season 5. There was easily enough potential for that, if not more.
I always think Cally in Blakes 7 was better as a telepath from a story perspective where her abilities could be used for a minor tactical advantage while being available as fodder for alien stories occasionally. Nebulous abilities like Jean Grey in X1 or Miranda Jones are interesting. I hate betazoids because tgey are so poorly thought out compared to Deltans. Like a one line: Read minds- mostly harmless. Troi's abilities were so unimaginative apart from in a couple of exceptional episodes. Kes only had a few episodes that examined her abilities too but they were so broad, there was so much more that could have been explored if they had developed gradually. There are all sorts of role playing games that let you build characters with super powers. When they build these aliens why can't they just list their abilities like an RPG profile to give writers something to refer to and build around?
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Gul Sengosts
Guest
Right, of course. Fixed it, thanks.
Well, with 1000+ people onboard, Troi probably had plenty of work with assorted redshirts, civilians, working parents, angsty teens, and the odd orphan who disappeared through the cracks. Having Worf for a parent probably gave Alexander all manner of neuroses.
Also there is the formal nature of Troi's role (something like Barclay's holo-addiction would have been less suited to whimsical and slightly mysterious Guinanisms - before anyone gets confused I really like her character but I do feel it had a bit of the old fashioned "auntie" vibe about it) vs the more off the cuff and social nature of the trope of Bartender/therapist that used to be common on tv
She was also the one from the rape colony, and also conveyed she was sexually attracted to Picard (and.. Data).
I enjoyed the character, but I figure the writers of Discovery would probably have major issues with her.
Yeah, in the context of the 90s perhaps it was. By today's standards, female sexuality can be empowering.
I haven't watched it, but apparently the Daenerys (Game of Thrones) character became incredibly popular with mainstream audiences (especially women) during the past decade. And she started off appearing naked in every episode.
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It's worth noting that they were originally going to kill of Kim and make Seven of Nine a man. When Garrett Wang won an award for Asian representation or some such, they decided that it might be inappropriate to do that and instead turned their eye to Kes. So from that, I think it was felt that there were budgetary issues with a new character and one in one out ruled. They turned Seven into a woman to 'keep the cast balanced' as if six men and three women is balanced. It is curious that the 2 for 1 ratio existed for so long in Trek (Janeway had only one woman in her senior staff and before the disaster and afterwards, if Carey had been appointed, she would have had none). In addition to that, female characters were far more likely to be axed or leave. Hell, in TOS Chapel and Rand are barely considered significant supporting characters, often absent from memorabilia. It's more understandable with Rand but Chapel appeared about as often as Chekov..
Not sure that’s racist as that creature likely didn’t ask permission to use Remmick’s body like that. And seeing the inside of a human body like that is pretty gross.That mother creature in TNG "Conspiracy" was taken out by the racist humans without a second thought.
Look at that look of disgust on his face:
I tried to find a picture of her singing and dancing but couldn't.
Another reason why they should have (at various times) axed Chakotay, Kes, and Kim. Consider...
* The TOS movies and TNG had seven main characters, and they did fine.
* Robert Beltran wanted out, and his character was ill-conceived anyway.
* They had no intention of doing anything meaningful with Kim, aside from repeatedly character-assassinate him.
* Kill off a character right, and you can really make an impact. Look at Spock in STII... even if they hadn't brought him back, what a way to exit!
* Both Jennifer Lien and Garrett Wang were reportedly behaving badly.
* It would have given VOY a nice "Game of Thrones" vibe: no one is safe.
* Four men, three women. The main cast would be 43% female. Compared to TOS (0%*), TOS movies (14%), TNG (29%), DS9 (22%), and initial VOY (33%).
*The main cast in TOS was effectively Kirk, Spock, and Bones.
Regarding Jeri Ryan getting cast...
From what I understand, it was Jeri Taylor that approached her several times, and Ryan kept saying no until she finally accepted. In her role as executive producer, that was definitely her best decision. (I have mentioned elsewhere that I thought she was a better writer than executive producer/head writer. Not a dig at her because they are two very different jobs with different responsibilities. Some people are simply not suited for leadership roles but thrive within the environment outside of being in leadership.)
Regarding Tasha Yar...
Keep in mind when she and Data had sex, she was already under the influence of the virus.
From what I understand, it was Jeri Taylor that approached her several times, and Ryan kept saying no until she finally accepted. In her role as executive producer, that was definitely her best decision. (I have mentioned elsewhere that I thought she was a better writer than executive producer/head writer. Not a dig at her because they are two very different jobs with different responsibilities. Some people are simply not suited for leadership roles but thrive within the environment outside of being in leadership.)
Regarding Tasha Yar...
Keep in mind when she and Data had sex, she was already under the influence of the virus.
I understand all of that. However, all I am saying is that, regardless of the motives of an author or producer, by having a "standard" on what is deemed as an "acceptable" story or production, half the the film and library catalog that exists today, wouldn't exist by today's standards. Huckleberry Finn? Certain episodes of TOS? And, again, I'm not against advancing the type of stories and productions out there, which is the purview of storytellers and producers to decide what he or she wishes to write or produce for public consumption. Let the market decide. Just saying that having a standard, like a litmus test, limits the creative process, simply because it is an artificial means of affecting pop culture by academics who typically aren't creative enough to get into the market themselves. But, I digress.
I am certainly not suggesting that all historical work should be judged through the prism of modern standards but feminism is not exactly a new concept. At some point, it should be acceotable t say, whoa, you could have done a lot better. The new Star Trek reboot was initially so sexist that I was genuinely shocked at how far the standards had regressed, considering this is a sci fi franchise. We had a couple of mothers (one died quickly and the other seemingly abandoned her children, leaving her son to obsess about his dead father), a green sex joke in her underwear, a more rounded Uhura, a transporter chief who couldn't do her job, and a name check for Chapel. No Number One, no T'Pau, no Rand/Colt/Smith/Barrows/Zara/Ross/Tamura, no lines for Chapel, no female security, no senior female officers in speaking roles at all, and the most prominent female character we did get was shoehorned into the girlfriend role, a role she had avoided throughout the whole of TOS.
It was an enjoyable bubble gum movie but quite shocking that, in the 21st century, there are still writers who can churn out such blatantly sexist science fiction. And when asked why they didn't include more of the women, they indicated that they couldn't think of anything for them to do. Wow. I was prepared to love the movie and that was only one of the problems I had with it, admittedly, but ageing Chekov instead of including a more rounded version of Rand gave an insight into the writers' minds: they were Chief Engineer Logan, screaming with a testosterone fuelled rush as they hurtled towards the ground.
Compare to Strange New Worlds, which has also rounded out Uhura but also has Number One, Chapel, and several other female characters. It can be done and it can be good. They couldn't think of anything for them to do. Wow again. I don't always think that 'creative freedom' is a legitimate excuse for attitudes that belong in the seventies. Just my opinion, of course.
I'm not a huge fan of gender swapping characters to make up the numbers but, that said, there have been some very successful examples such as Judi Dench in Bond, Olivia Coleman in the Night Manager, and Michelle Yeoh in Everything Everywhere All at Once. Much as I loved it, I would have preferred that NuBSG had included the original female characters instead of gender swapping the men. None of the characters named after the women in the original show bore any resemblance at all to the originals. Those women had a ton of potential and I couldn't wondering why not a single one of them had made the cut, not even the prostitute, Cassiopeia (I suppose one could argue that Caprica Six was based loosely on Cassiopeia, since a version of her was Cain's paramour, but she was never named as such and bore no other resemblance).
Athena was in the original BSG, and the Sharon that Helo married took 'Athena' as her callsign.
Eliminating Chuckles would have been a godsend as far as I'm concerned. Beltran phoned it in for seven years (he apparently only took the role in the first place because he wanted to work with Bujold) and as you say the Chuckles character, while a good idea in principle, was so badly drawn and written they may as well not have bothered.
If they ever did, they lost interest pretty much immediately. Wang at least had more of a go than Beltran (not that that would have been difficult given Beltran couldn't have made it any more obvious that he was only there for the paycheque), but IMO he's not one of the better actors Trek as a whole has ever cast. That probably didn't help. Nor did...
As I recall Wang had a tendency to show up late / hung over / underprepared. It was probably only his appearance in that most beautiful people list (or whatever it was) that saved him. Lien's very unfortunate issues are well documented.
Agreed. Taylor could write some rubbish as well and there were a few things she wanted for the series that I really didn't care for, but getting Ryan on the show made up for pretty much all her other missteps.
Blatant T&A is not empowering, then or now. It's sexist.
Yeah, but she's not Adama's daughter, she's an unrelated character with the same call sign, unlike Adama, Apollo, Starbuck, Tigh, Boxey, Baltar, Cain, and a few other pilots who are clearly based on the original characters. Duala flirts with becoming a surrogate Athena (or a mash up of Athena and Rigel) at the end of season one but they relegated her to love interest going forward after that. When she was married and a senior officer, she was still used more often as the woman at home - not even any scenes alone with her father-in-law. A real shame - the scene in season 1 where Adama gives her permission to speak freely and she tears him a new one was awesome. We also got a version of Sheba briefly, but again, not really related to the original character beyond being a pilot from the Pegasus and she didn't last long.
Considering that it would have taken very little to modernise existing female characters who were pilots, a reporter, a socialator (Firefly?) and medical technician, it's just curious that almost nothing of the original female characters ported across beyond the name checks. Not misogyny, but curious.
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