Misogyny and Racism in STU
- Thread starter thewanderingjack
- Start date
The rest of your list shows the flaws, limitations, and lack of progress of the 60s. That's fine, this topic is about how Star Trek has progressed or lacked progess on social issues.
I do not think we can include "Battlefield" in this list though. Unless I'm missing some racism on our heroes' part, the episode is very much socially progressive for it's time. The story is about the stupidity and evils of racism, so, of course, racism is depicted.
Maybe I missed something?
As a psychologist, I always found her role to be poorly defined, at least relative to how the field operates today (understanding that the fictional future can have lots of differences with today).
She’s always referred to as a “counselor”. Today that generally refers to someone with maybe a BA, or SUD certification. Possibly an MA.
I don’t recall her ever being referred to as a “doctor” or a “therapist” although she did talk about “therapy”. So I don’t think we have any clear idea of her licensure or education with which we can compare her to the rest of the field. What are her ethical obligations, regarding confidentiality for example?
Anyway, to stay on topic, I’ve heard Marina Sirtis state that while TNG did make some progress with women, the two female stars were still in the caring professions, still “motherly” to a certain degree.
To be fair the third female star was the security chief. Then we got a recurring bartender and a renegade pilot.
Well, for less than one season, after which she was replaced by a man.
I’m drawing a blank. Who was the renegade pilot?
Ro Laren?
I suppose, but yes briefly recurring. Not the main cast.
Anyway, it was Sirtis’ point, not mine.
Compare the women in TNG to the women in DSC.
What about comparing TNG to DS9, which aired concurrently for 2 years?
Kira Nerys - definitely no misogyny with her role. She was written as a character first, and a woman second. And she can arguably (and very strongly, too) be called the most well written female character in the franchise, and that includes today's shows.
Jadzia Dax - while she was played with some sex appeal, she also was a scientist and a warrior.
Kira Nerys - definitely no misogyny with her role. She was written as a character first, and a woman second. And she can arguably (and very strongly, too) be called the most well written female character in the franchise, and that includes today's shows.
Jadzia Dax - while she was played with some sex appeal, she also was a scientist and a warrior.
Deanna's outfit was problematic, but the issue did resolve itself.
Kira and Dax wore standard uniforms. Yes, both wore eye candy outfits on occasion (Kinky Kira, Risa swimsuit Dax, Tribble-ations Dax), but it was just that: occasional.
Janeway and Torres, same thing. Even Kes, despite being young and attractive, wears relatively modest outfits.
You think Trek has turned a corner, and begun regarding female characters as strong, empowered, capable, and definitely not mere eye candy. And then... Season 4 of Voyager, and one giant step backward for womankind.
Kira and Dax wore standard uniforms. Yes, both wore eye candy outfits on occasion (Kinky Kira, Risa swimsuit Dax, Tribble-ations Dax), but it was just that: occasional.
Janeway and Torres, same thing. Even Kes, despite being young and attractive, wears relatively modest outfits.
You think Trek has turned a corner, and begun regarding female characters as strong, empowered, capable, and definitely not mere eye candy. And then... Season 4 of Voyager, and one giant step backward for womankind.
Which was really unfair and unprofessional of Mulgrew. She should have known from her own experience in acting that actors wear what they're told to wear, especially when they're a new hire. It's not like Jeri Ryan enjoyed wearing something that was literally damaging her health.
Lincoln.
SNIP!
...Which is used to hamstring creativity with an ideological bent. Were there a litmus test for any of the great works of literature in the past? No. What about popular television programs in the past? No. Again, a story should be judged on its own merits, free of editorial constraints of those people who never published a novel, or produced a script. So, how about having NO litmus test, and simply judge a product on its own merits? You can still critique something, but it would be based on what YOU are looking for in a story, rather than what should be your criteria, based on someone else's values. That's all I am saying.
A recurring bartender who was also a therapist and made Troi even less relevant.
Sorry, I don't really get the point you're trying to make. Critical thinking is based on awareness. A racist can still create a racist piece of fiction based on their own ideological bent. Someone who isn't consciously racist, i.e. pretty much everyone, who doesn't particularly want to be racist, can overcome natural bias by having some guidance.
Many writers have studied literature formally. Part of that process is to examine the works critically and discuss opinions with your peers. My own project was to examine female representation in three different Sci fi novels: Ape an Essence, the Drowned World, and the Handmaid's Tale. So when I look at sci fi, I think back to what I learned and it colours my critical thinking.
Any education is going to impact creativity. It's silly to suggest that something like the Bechdel Test needs to be singled out as ideologically inappropriate. Nobody has to follow it and, as evidenced in the article, they frequently don't.
Further, the series that passed the most and the series that passed the least cannot be said to creatively distinct because of that one thing. It's purely that the captain and chief engineer have more reasons to interact than first officer and comms officer. The more characters you have in diverse roles, the more likely you are to pass. A WWII drama is unlikely to pass and that's fine.
The message is more that if there is no reason not to include more women, ask yourself why you didn't. That's part of the creative process, not stifling it.
Many actresses (Sirtis included) have more diverse skill sets than their badly written characters, or, as Grace Lee Whitney described them: cute and not very bright.
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Indeed. The T&A angle TPTB were blatantly going for with that...abomination of an outfit was a disgrace. I remain thankful beyond words that someone as stellar as Jeri Ryan was cast. Seven could have been a genuinely awful character if portrayed by a lesser actress.
Mulgrew didn't cover herself with glory at the time, but I'm inclined to cut her a bit of slack given she was recently divorced, felt bad about spending time away from her kids, was disappointed Lien had departed, and was then confronted with the sort of T&A crap she (and others) had been assured wasn't going to be part of the show. Did she direct her ire at the right person? Not at all, but she's since admitted she was in the wrong and surely that counts for something.
I think she blamed Ryan a bit more due to the added whiff of nepotism i.e. that Lien was axed to make way for a producer's girlfriend. Ryan was great of course.
My regret is that they decided to write Lien out straight away when she should have remained as a guest star, at least until Year of Hell, to close the predestination paradox.
Star Trek is hugely speciesist though, with so much emphasis given to human characters and aliens being in the minority despite there being 150-ish member worlds. Either most UFP member races are indistinct from humans or the Captain's of our hero ships are letting their human bigotry show and not wanting them onboard.
Ryan and Braga actually started dating after she was cast as Seven. The repellent notion (oft expressed at this board and elsewhere back in the day) that she owed her role, if not her entire career, to the casting couch was despicable then and remains so now. Talk about misogyny.
I've long maintained that Lien shouldn't have been let go at all. There was an absolute gold mine of material in a Kes / Seven friendship. That it didn't happen was a significant missed opportunity.
