Well, I sure don't mind seeing the girl costumers in midriff-baring outfits at conventions (okay, some of them, anyway) but certainly the 24th century "sequels" on modern Trek TV suck ass.
Mirror,Mirror
- Thread starter KirkSpockTOSFan
- Start date
Well, I sure don't mind seeing the girl costumers in midriff-baring outfits at conventions (okay, some of them, anyway) but certainly the 24th century "sequels" on modern Trek TV suck ass.
There are a bunch of great episodes of TOS whose premises, logically and scientifically, make no sense at all.
But does it really matter? I don't think of Mirror, Mirror as just a silly campy romp where people dress differently and get to wear beards or scars (and I think that DS9 Mirror Universe episodes went wrong the moment that the writers seemed to believe that this is all that the MU is about), I like it because it is a look at a dark version of the Federation. It's an interesting concept to explore - that in a different set of circumstances, our heroes might have turned completely different, and that a united Earth could have become a leader of a barbaric, ruthless conquering empire. The only other MU episodes in Trek I like are ENT In a Mirror, Darkly which develops the same idea from Mirror, Mirror, and, to an extent, DS9 Crossover, dealing with the idea that Spock's rebellion and attempt to make the Empire more humane might not have been such a good thing - which made it interesting... but then, since
the rebellion of the Terran slaves started, we were basically left with human heroes fighting evil Klingons and Cardassians, and well, do I have to explain why this misses the very point of the MU?
It's true that I got a kick out of the Star Trek Enterprise "Mirror" episodes, I guess because they tracked so much more closely to the style of TOS than to the 24th century stuff.
Well, I don't mind seeing the occasionally midriff either.
However, I just don't get the desire of a fandom niche to continually see the Mirror Universe again and again in all incarnations of Trek, the new movie included. That universe has become self-referential parody instead of camp with each new foray.
That being said, the Mirror Universe "sequels" I have enjoyed are The Mirror Universe Saga by Mike W. Barr, Tom Sutton, and Richard Villagran from the first run of DC Trek comics and In a Mirror Darkly from ENT. The 24th Century sequels did suck Major Kira ass.
"Evil Universe," DS9-style:
It was the boys in the writing room, stuck in a boy mentality where this kind of stuff wasn't even just subtext. I think they just wanted hot girl-on-girl action.
I liked Barr's Mirror Universe comics, too.
- Sexually aggressive woman = Scary
- Bisexuality/homosexuality = Perverse
It was the boys in the writing room, stuck in a boy mentality where this kind of stuff wasn't even just subtext. I think they just wanted hot girl-on-girl action.
I liked Barr's Mirror Universe comics, too.
There are a bunch of great episodes of TOS whose premises, logically and scientifically, make no sense at all.
Exactly. On its face, "Mirror, Mirror" is silly but, as written and acted, it is one of Trek's finest hours because it never winks at us and it takes the thematic elements seriously. Another episode that does this is "The Enemy Within."
"Evil Universe," DS9-style:
- Sexually aggressive woman = Scary
- Bisexuality/homosexuality = Perverse
It was the boys in the writing room, stuck in a boy mentality where this kind of stuff wasn't even just subtext. I think they just wanted hot girl-on-girl action.
Ach! Much as it pains me--a TOSer with Niner sympathies--to admit, this is an accurate read of those rather weak episodes. (Though I myself also just want hot girl-on-girl action: if all goes well, that will be my 40th birthday present to myself.
)
"Evil Universe," DS9-style:
- Sexually aggressive woman = Scary
- Bisexuality/homosexuality = Perverse
It was the boys in the writing room, stuck in a boy mentality where this kind of stuff wasn't even just subtext. I think they just wanted hot girl-on-girl action.
I liked Barr's Mirror Universe comics, too.
Yup. If not perverse in-universe (and I can't remember), at least an oddity-to-be-gawked-at in 199x tv-land. Too bad, coming from Trek franchise which sort of purports to be all IDIC-y.
I too like a different view of the Federation in the TOS ep. As written, it is saying look how good the REAL federation must be. But it prompts me to remember that other groups would view the "real" federation that way too. Fed-centric, overbearing and intrusive, at least. Sometimes the later writers would let "aliens" voice that. Quark would occasionally goad a Starfleeter about the Fed.'s hypocrisies.
It's my favorite episode of TOS, and therefore it's my all-time favorite episode of Trek. I'm a sucker for a good parallel universe story.
Things I love about it:
1) The set & costuming design. It's so cool that the regular Enterprise looks BLAND at the end!
2) How haggared Tharn, the leader of the Halkans, looks in the MU.
3) The way they imply so much about the history & methodology of the MU with just a few hints.
4) It's not just a Kirk/Spock/McCoy ep -- EVERYONE in the cast is well-utilized. They either get to contribute directly to the plot, play an evil version of their character, or both!
5) Uhura's midriff.
And Marlena Moreau.
My only criticisms are:
1) Uhura's "I'm frightened" moment & the fact that she hands the vase to Kirk instead of bashing it over Mirror-Spock's head herself.
2) We don't get to see too much of the evil crew on the regular Enterprise. Just how quickly did Spock catch onto them? I'm not saying that it should've been a two-parter, but an extra 20-30 minutes covering that would've been sweet!
3) With DVD resolution, I can now see that Mirror Spock's goatee is more brown than black.
Things I love about it:
1) The set & costuming design. It's so cool that the regular Enterprise looks BLAND at the end!
2) How haggared Tharn, the leader of the Halkans, looks in the MU.
3) The way they imply so much about the history & methodology of the MU with just a few hints.
4) It's not just a Kirk/Spock/McCoy ep -- EVERYONE in the cast is well-utilized. They either get to contribute directly to the plot, play an evil version of their character, or both!
5) Uhura's midriff.
And Marlena Moreau. My only criticisms are:
1) Uhura's "I'm frightened" moment & the fact that she hands the vase to Kirk instead of bashing it over Mirror-Spock's head herself.
2) We don't get to see too much of the evil crew on the regular Enterprise. Just how quickly did Spock catch onto them? I'm not saying that it should've been a two-parter, but an extra 20-30 minutes covering that would've been sweet!
3) With DVD resolution, I can now see that Mirror Spock's goatee is more brown than black.
Heck, I'm a heterosexual woman, and even I had a crush on Uhura after watching this episode Those abs. Work it, girl.
I love that Bones insists on staying behind to tend to Mirror!Spock after Kirk hits him over the head with the plaster skull. Even at the risk that he'll be left behind, Bones' compassion and sense of duty as a doctor demand that he help the injured if at all possible. And what does he get for his kindness?
Spock slowly, ominously backs him into a wall and forces a mind-meld on him. The first time I watched that scene, I held my breath, and oh-- how sorry I felt for Bones when his eyes widened in horrified realization of what was about to happen! Spock is my favorite character, and I loved Mirror!Spock... but that moment definitely reminded me how different he is from our Spock.
Those abs. Work it, girl. I love that Bones insists on staying behind to tend to Mirror!Spock after Kirk hits him over the head with the plaster skull. Even at the risk that he'll be left behind, Bones' compassion and sense of duty as a doctor demand that he help the injured if at all possible. And what does he get for his kindness?
Spock slowly, ominously backs him into a wall and forces a mind-meld on him. The first time I watched that scene, I held my breath, and oh-- how sorry I felt for Bones when his eyes widened in horrified realization of what was about to happen! Spock is my favorite character, and I loved Mirror!Spock... but that moment definitely reminded me how different he is from our Spock.
Heck, I'm a heterosexual woman, and even I had a crush on Uhura after watching this episode
Yeah, I wonder how many situps Nichelle Nichols did in anticipation of that episode.
Yes, that is SO McCoy. You reminded me of another moment I love... Scotty stoically volunteering to stay behind when they find out that someone has to stay and work the transporter controls -- Followed by the ONLY time Scotty ever calls Kirk "Jim" when Kirk orders him onto the pad. Great character moment for Scotty.
Heck, I'm a heterosexual woman, and even I had a crush on Uhura after watching this episode
Yeah, I wonder how many situps Nichelle Nichols did in anticipation of that episode.
She was only going to do 50 or so, but MLK begged her to keep going.
True story.
Probably my favorite TOS ep. I'd agree it's a silly story in some respects, but silliness is good when you can work well with it. I'm far less fond of the DS9 follow ups ("Crossover" was decent but it went downhill afterwards) but I think ENT did okay with IAMD.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Probably my favorite TOS ep. I'd agree it's a silly story in some respects, but silliness is good when you can work well with it. I'm far less fond of the DS9 follow ups ("Crossover" was decent but it went downhill afterwards) but I think ENT did okay with IAMD.
i thought DS9's follow-ups were pretty good, except for the last two. But the one with Sisko's wife, and then her return, and kidnapping of jake, and the coming attack by the evil WORF were fun stories that provided 'light' fun for viewers, which is why they were done. For 'variety', and worked IMO.
Enterprise's Mirror IAMD was good too...
Rob
Heck, I'm a heterosexual woman, and even I had a crush on Uhura after watching this episode
Yeah, I wonder how many situps Nichelle Nichols did in anticipation of that episode.
She was only going to do 50 or so, but MLK begged her to keep going.
True story.
You're a bad man.
It's about Mirror Spock and Prime Uhura? (Or so it says on page 1) That reminds me... I always thought that Mirror Sulu was hinting in this scene that there was something between Mirror Uhura and Mirror Spock (possibly Mirror Kirk, as well) - it's the way he says "Is the captain here?... Is Spock here?" when talking to Uhura (who he believed to be MU Uhura)... And with it being the Mirror Universe, my mind naturally imagined sordid scenarios!
Perhaps, but that's not the only thing that gets me in that ep. It's also the way that Uhura looks at Mirror Spock when he's in sickbay on the bed. Seriously, look at that scene. I don't know what it is exactly, but I get vibes from it.
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