Miranda Class Navigational Deflector Component Visible...?

[bryce]

One thing that the Miranda Class seems to be missing is an obvious navigational deflector....or at least (IMHO) - navigational deflector dish...

But I noticed a feature on the Miranda Class hull a years ago, that is the very same (I believe feature) - 3 or which encircle the Constitution Class refit navigational deflector dish.

This wish the best pic I could find -- my photoshp skills are so bad I can't even *circle* something -- but the feature this person is calling a "saucer bolt"...



Are like an exact match (to my eyes) of the 3 simialr "bolt-like) protrusions surrounding the Refit Connie Navigational Deflector Dish. Here:



And it got me wondering if these bolt-like features are *part* of a Starship's Navigational Deflector System...and so the so-called "saucer bolt" on the Miranda CLass:




...might really just be a component of a dish-less Miranda Class Navigational Deflector system.

Meaning that the Miranda Class *does* have a Navigational Deflector System...just a dish-less one. In fact, in Trek, the dish may be either unnecessary, redundant, or having other features - as in TNG and post-TNG Trek, we have seen the saucers used more often to generate tightly-focused particle beams -- which may *help* augment and strengthen the Navigational Deflector System - but not be absolutely *necessary* for it. (As we see it on most older ENT-era ships...but not all TOS ERA ships...then it repairs again, maybe because of a new-type so system design (like the non-glowing Bussard Collectors)...that is later found to be not as good as the old system...or part or a superior all-round better 24th version of the NavDev system.)

 

[bryce]

I noticed similar matching features with the original, pre-refit Connie Class design...and the (earlier) Daedalus Class - also missing a (visible) deflector dish.

The original Connie Class has these 3 glowing circular features on the most forward from of the sauced section...which I *used* to think of as windows - but now wonder if thy might me part of a Secondary Saucer Navigational Deflector in the event of a Sauce Separation.

One thing that got me thinking along those lines were almost the exact same feature - about where you'd expect a Navigational Deflector to be - on the Daedalus Class vessels...

Of course on the model for Sisko's desk in DS9, I only remember 3 - but and probably wrong - but the may be an early type of Navigation Deflector design...





Of course there may be an whole Navigational Deflector Dish hidden behind that front "cowling"....the same way on Earth, in modern times, radar-shaped dishes are hidden behind domes and 1/2 domes...and even the nose-cones of airplanes...

[Couldn't find a pic! Any help!?]

 

[Mytran]

I think the saucer "bolts" are the most likely . In TOS the dish was only every described (in offscreen material, anyway) as a "sensor" anyway. The "deflectors" were just the defensive screens. An "anti-meteorite beam" was mentioned in The Cage but not where it was emitted from.

Of course, as the 23rd century progressed the deflector "bolts" disappeared from starship designs. Dialogue in TNG clearly points to a deflector DISH system. I'm not sure if the dish still functions as a sensor as well though - starships do have those long sensor strips in the 24th century after all, so a single large sensor dish might be redundant.

 

[Timo]

Considering what this deflector beam is supposed to achieve, it makes sense to combine it with sensors to some degree at least.

The beam has to be projected forward at very high FTL speed to protect the ship at warp speed. If such a feat requires heavy machinery, there's probably little point in duplicating that machinery for projecting sensing beams forward (or aft, or sideways, or up, or... You get the idea) in the same manner, not if the machinery is capable of, say, creating a FTL tunnel in which all sorts of useful beams can propagate.

Using those bolts as the deflectors of the TOS movie era ships works just fine, as it places them close to the supposed sensor dish in the one ship that has such a dish. The blocky things in the hull behind and around the dish in TOS might be taken for fairings for similar devices. But from the Excelsior on, we have to invent something else. If the deflector beam emitter is combined with the dish at that point (ST:GEN would indicate it happens at that point at the very latest), it's a bit annoying that the Excelsior still has the very same dish design as the Constitution in terms of looks, only without the bolts...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[varek]

Speaking of deflectors, if ships traveling at warp speed are enclosed in a warp bubble, wouldn't the energy barrier at the forward-moving edge of the bubble push aside any small object in its way--not a planet or a moon, but microparticles, that is?

I am thinking of the Alcubierre drive and similar theories:

http://www.aerorocket.com/WarpMetrics.html

 

[bryce]

Oops, these are the 3 circles of light I meant on the front of the pre-refit Connie Class






^Those *easily* could be windows...though they would have a placement (the room/space behind them) would be in a space * between two traditional decks. But who says that all decks on a Starship must be on one single level for each "deck" of the ship...?

 

[bryce]

I think the "bolts" both sensor and shield/deflector emitters *and* receivers (to catch the "signal" that bounces back." Measuring how much for and what reaction the repulsion force had on the objects being repelled - could revel a LOT about them. (Not to mention all those various "particle" and "anti-particle" beams that the can generate...

Plus it gives the Miranda Class some sort of visible Navigational Deflector system.

Plus Federation Starships seem to have *multiple* types of Deflector systems...

The Navigational Deflector which goes out in front of the ship...and the Bubble-type shields...and layer shields (possible a variation of the bubble - inner layers - multiple bubbles - from ST:V)...and the skin-type Deflector Shields. Plus "Ablative Shielding" such as the Defiant on DS9 has...and "Multiphasic Shielding"...and they may still Polarize the Hull Plaiting in later centuries...just to add some extra protection...

 

[Timo]

As for those three things at the bow of the TOS ship... Windows or glowing gizmos?

In some episodes, the centermost of the three is shown flashing in a "leaving the orbit" establishing shot; the other two are dark. Evidence for the gizmo model! OTOH, the TOS-R computer-generated model has a window sill structure inside the round things, and in ENT "In a Mirror, Darkly", a sister ship in an alternate universe has what looks like redshirts walking past the things. Evidence for the window model!

It could of course be both - these could be openings for big and important optical sensors, and sometimes maintenance people would need to work between the outer windows and the forwardmost lenses of the devices.

Or it could be windows exclusively, and the flashing in those few episodes indicate a wild leaving-the-orbit party in progress at the bow lounge.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Robert Comsol]

The Official TMP Blueprints refer to these "saucer bolts" (for the Enterprise) as "space energy field attraction sensors".

Given the lack of a navigational deflector of Reliant (introduced after TMP), it's an interesting question whether their function merits a new definition.

In this case, however, I'd tend to insist that the Constellation Class (e.g. Stargazer, Hathaway) should feature these, too.

Bob

 

[Mytran]

The Constellation class did have that large, rectangular section on the forward rim of the saucer. Perhaps the deflector gizmos are in there? The rectangle is never identified as anything in particular in either episode.

 

[bryce]

The Constellation class did have that large, rectangular section on the forward rim of the saucer. Perhaps the deflector gizmos are in there? The rectangle is never identified as anything in particular in either episode.

I wondered about that too! If a NavDef was in there (maybe one that could be open and closed to space for whatever reason. Some fan blueprints show that as a cargo hold or hanger bay. (But often shown only a few decks tall for some unknown reason...? WAY to *small*!) But until it's made canon on screen or somewhere...it can be anything.

^That hanger should be MANY decks TALLER!!!

 

[bryce]

As for those three things at the bow of the TOS ship... Windows or glowing gizmos?

In some episodes, the centermost of the three is shown flashing in a "leaving the orbit" establishing shot; the other two are dark. Evidence for the gizmo model! OTOH, the TOS-R computer-generated model has a window sill structure inside the round things, and in ENT "In a Mirror, Darkly", a sister ship in an alternate universe has what looks like redshirts walking past the things. Evidence for the window model!

It could of course be both - these could be openings for big and important optical sensors, and sometimes maintenance people would need to work between the outer windows and the forwardmost lenses of the devices.



Or it could be windows exclusively, and the flashing in those few episodes indicate a wild leaving-the-orbit party in progress at the bow lounge.

Timo Saloniemi

Like TOS, and am selective about TSR cannon -- especially as in TSR the totally redesigned the outline shape of Mudd's ship - but then the nuTrek "Star Trek Into Darkness" used to TOS *outline* as the outline/shape of Mudd's captured vessel in the movie!!!

TSR version:




It's like with ANY onscreen Trek - I view what I see of the screen as an *approximation* of what is "really* there.

 

[blssdwlf]

The Constellation class did have that large, rectangular section on the forward rim of the saucer. Perhaps the deflector gizmos are in there? The rectangle is never identified as anything in particular in either episode.

You mean that rectangular area with the number painted on it like the hangar doors of the Reliant?

As much as I like the idea of those fairings being nav deflectors it doesn't explain how the ships can warp backwards and sideways, etc. Whatever the nav deflectors look like it has to operate in all directions.

 

[Mytran]

I don't doubt that there are other deflector systems operating around a vessel. However, the main ones would tend to point forward, wouldn't they?

 

[blssdwlf]

I think the main ones pointing forward is true in TNG and later but the TOS/TFS ships operated also backwards and sideways that I would argue that the "main deflectors" were 360 and that they had forward, port, starboard, aft, etc projectors or emitters. IMHO.

 

[Timo]

^That hanger should be MANY decks TALLER!!!

Why? At the "accepted" size of the Constitution, her saucer rim is a bit less than two decks high, from which it would follow that the rim of the Constellation is approximately three decks high, as shown.

but then the nuTrek "Star Trek Into Darkness" used to TOS *outline* as the outline/shape of Mudd's captured vessel in the movie!!!

That's really cool, even if one wonders about the angles from which the ship is seen in "Mudd's Women"...

The "VW Kleinbus hippiemobile in space" shape also sort of works, though, if we assume the general glow obscures the thin nacelles.

You mean that rectangular area with the number painted on it like the hangar doors of the Reliant?

Happily, the number isn't really visible even in the TNG-R bow shots of "The Battle" or "Elementary, Dear Data". Basically, we could see shutters there, or even an unshuttered and merely dimmed-down square deflector shape.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SchwEnt]

FWIW, some of the really excellent fan blueprints have the Reliant's navigational deflectors on the aft underside of the hull, the pair of greebly-vent things.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Now that you mentioned that, didn't the Constellation Class have two unusual bumps on the saucer underside that could contain nav deflectors?

Bob

 

[Timo]

Or four, even. And then there are the clusters of greeblies at the junctures of the T-pylons, with a good view forward and, if necessary, aft.

The thing is, even if we found a visible feature more or less common to four or five Starfleet ships and decided to call that the navigational deflector, this wouldn't help us along much, because supposedly every ship in the Trek universe requires a deflector yet few have anything that we could count even as "less common"...

We might be better off deciding that navigational deflectors, much like shields, are internally carried devices that project their invisible protective beams through the hull or, more probably, generate the desired effect at point P without having any effect at the space between the generator and P.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[wildstar]

FWIW, some of the really excellent fan blueprints have the Reliant's navigational deflectors on the aft underside of the hull, the pair of greebly-vent things.

You refer to the excellent Fedreration Frontiers blueprints, which not only label those, but the greeblies above the "bolts" as navigationsl deflectors as well. Primary on the bottom aft and secondary above the bolts.