But, asking the question invariably brings up how Starfleet was portrayed in various iterations. So, of course the debate will continue. Also, it's there to annoy the mods
As for your question, my answer is always yes to more military themes.
Military themes in the Star Trek universe.
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As for your question, my answer is always yes to more military themes.
Starfleet is Schrödinger's military, depending on the needs of the episode's plot.
Historically military units have engaged in much exploration, European navy ships explored the world.
During TNG and DS9, from a multitude of references, how much time was the Federation NOT at war? Major wars, border wars, etc..
Starfleet is both a military and a peaceful exploratory and scientific service. It's both Dr. Robert Ballard and Admiral Bull Halsey and neither contradict the other.
Is this thread? I think this is thread. So...
/thread.
I trust we'll not speak of this again.
Thread is good. Holy word. The Kohms know not of thread!
Which, again, is why I included the word primary. It's true they also did that stuff, but their primary responsibility was to be a fighting force for their country. Even though these explorations may ultimately have had far more historical consequences than their 'local' European wars.
Point taken, and I'd be happy to do that. Frankly though, I don't see that much 'military themes and military culture' (to return to the words the opening poster used) in DS9 (taken to mean that I didn't see many changes in Starfleet 'culture' itself, more so than in any other series) - I just saw a lot of war-related themes and their effects on duty personnel (stuff like dealing with the loss of friends, loss of morale when things went badly, being taken prisoner, etc). If that's what you mean by 'military themes' I'd say that in my eyes, there is no need to revisit that for now. Trek 'did' a major war, and they did it well, but for now, that was enough for me. Even though DS9 was an awesome series and I welcome it being different from the rest of Trek, I still think Trek's primary focus should be on open minded exploration.
If you meant something else, however, I'd probably still need to return to my earlier question as of what exactly a military is and how it differs from Starfleet, just to get a clear demarcation of what we are actually talking about.
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I had seen this post on Friday evening and I could tell it was going to be one of those threads and seeing the rest of it justified my opinion. I didn't realise that the military part of Star Trek, if you could call it that, was so contentious. However, there was a lot of good debate and interesting detail in particular about the US Coast Guard.
Although it may sound strange and contradictory but I don't believe in war unless absolutely necessary yet I am a bit of a military geek. It is much like politics where you can obsess about the details of how it works, how it is structured and how it is implemented.
I do agree that DS9 has war-related themes but I don't really remember any military themes and culture that played a great part in the series. I like the details of how military structures are implemented and how individual react within that environment. They have different sets of rules and yes, culture that are different from what ordinary people experience in their day to day lives.
A fictional example of this is on Babylon 5's episode Point of no return temporarily defuses a situation with no solution by using the military chain of command where in that universe, a civilian president can't give military orders. Of course, it is only temporary and the President only needed to get a military official to give the order but in getting that order, it gave Sheridan the breathing space to make his next move.
This is an example of what I was trying to get at. Could there be situations where for example a starship commander would have to deal with conflicting rules governing the use of force and that of the Federations peaceful aims much like the moral dilemas that have been explored a lot with the Prime Directive as well as dealing with internal power structures of Starfleet which is determined by senior members of the Federation in their desire to shape the way the organisation is headed?
I men, I feel like Trek has touched on these themes in different ways throughout.
This was before the writers decided Starfleet and Cardassia fought a war. In universe if part of your job is to defend your nation state aka UFP you better practice good combat skills as a starship captain. Riker's statement was utterly stupid.
I would not mind seeing more military themes or culture in the franchise, after all when the Klingon and Dominion come calling, who does the UFP call? Ghostbusters? If Picard does not want to be a soldier but an explorer then he should have joined Professor Galen's crew.
Did any of the novels deal with Picard's bullshit, hypocritical attitude about 'just being an explorer?'
Trek's premise was Hornblower in space, not 'NASA in space'
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The novels depict Starfleet as a military, period. The closest they ever get to acknowledging that the shows view it as non-military are situations where there are aliens talking among themselves. One would say something like "But Starfleet isn't a military" with the other responding "only they believe that."
From the first Klingon episode, TOS "Errand of Mercy" [http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/27.htm]:
KIRK: You have this planet and its strategic location. I assure you that if you don't take action to prevent it, the Klingons will move against you as surely as your sun rises. We will help you build defences, build facilities.
AYELBORNE: We have no defences, Captain, nor are any needed.
KIRK: Gentlemen, I have seen what the Klingons do to planets like yours. They are organised into vast slave labour camps. No freedoms whatsoever. Your goods will be confiscated. Hostages taken and killed, your leaders confined. You'd be far better off on a penal planet. Infinitely better off.
AYELBORNE: Captain, we see that your concern is genuine. We are moved. But again we assure you we are in absolutely no danger. If anybody is in danger, you are, and that concerns us greatly. It would be better if you returned to your ship as soon as possible.
KIRK: You keep insisting there's no danger. I keep assuring you there is. Would you mind telling me
AYELBORNE: It is our way of life, Captain.
KIRK: That's the first thing that would be lost! Excuse me, gentlemen. I'm a soldier, not a diplomat. I can only tell you the truth.
AYELBORNE: If you will excuse us, Captain, we will discuss your kind offer.
KIRK: Certainly.
AYELBORNE: We have no defences, Captain, nor are any needed.
KIRK: Gentlemen, I have seen what the Klingons do to planets like yours. They are organised into vast slave labour camps. No freedoms whatsoever. Your goods will be confiscated. Hostages taken and killed, your leaders confined. You'd be far better off on a penal planet. Infinitely better off.
AYELBORNE: Captain, we see that your concern is genuine. We are moved. But again we assure you we are in absolutely no danger. If anybody is in danger, you are, and that concerns us greatly. It would be better if you returned to your ship as soon as possible.
KIRK: You keep insisting there's no danger. I keep assuring you there is. Would you mind telling me
AYELBORNE: It is our way of life, Captain.
KIRK: That's the first thing that would be lost! Excuse me, gentlemen. I'm a soldier, not a diplomat. I can only tell you the truth.
AYELBORNE: If you will excuse us, Captain, we will discuss your kind offer.
KIRK: Certainly.
Y'know, one of the biggest reasons I've come to like Enterprise more than I did back in the day and, in a certain way, all other Trek shows is the clear delineation between the explorers and the military, and the fact that they can both work together in a constructive manner, while doing what each were actually good at, without the cultural influences from one completely overshadowing the other. The mindset of explorers and scientists should be different than those tasked with protecting everyone, including the explorers and scientists.
Stuff like starships engaged in combat, co-ordinated attacks on enemy planets, formed into fleets, etc..
It was probably just as well that Riker had no ambition for the captain's chair by that point. It was going to be a lonnnng wait.
one of the things I really liked about riker in season one was he obviously considered serving under picard as merely a stepping stone in his progression to captain. regretfully lost in later seasons.
In hindsight the producers should state each season represents 6 Earth months instead of 1 Earth year, and each film represents 1 year so instead of 15 years as XO and having a dead career he just had around 7???
But how would they have explained the actors aging 15 years if only 7 pass? Especially since people in the 14th century are supposed to age slower/stay young longer?
Semper Paratus!Actually, as I was taught...’We are that hard nucleus about which the Navy forms in time of war.’
(Apologies to my Navy brethren out there.)
Cheers,
-CM-
PO3 Gary Miles, US Coast Guard 1988-1993, USCGC Sundew (WLB-404)
the same way you explain steward and picard having a ten year difference in age. you don't.
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