Middle-Easterners in "Discovery"
- Thread starter Lord Garth
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Eh maybe not, considering how some churches are starting to acknowledge gay marriage now, by 2150 we'll probably have a more progressive Pope.
The current one just called the acceptance of people like me "terrible" for the world. So I'll give it about another 800 years.
Exactly so.
Not even particularly new ones.
This whole topic has gone off on a bit of a tangent, though. Here's a thing: The Star Trek vision lies about how people learn to get along with one another by just declaring some of the causes of disagreement to have simply disappeared and by ignoring the existence of others.
You know what? There are no Muslims in Star Trek, but gee that's not at all bigoted because there are no Christians either. There's no evidence or suggestion that people of different faiths every learned to respect one another and to get along, because someone waved a magic wand and all the religions disappeared instead.
The portrayal of future humanity pretty much shoves all of us and our customs into the American (let's be generous and say "Western") box.
That's not a vision; it's an evasion. It's flim-flam.
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If we need to have a reference to the Pope in Star Trek, I'd like it to contain the words: 'the Pope and her wife..."
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Now that, I'll give about another 2000 years, or the faith abandoning the position altogether. One of the more patriarchal/homophobic institutions on the planet that are centuries behind us now will not go to that future remotely peacefully or soon.
The first article is not sourced at all, just a vague reference to the pew research center, which I'm familiar with, but no link is provided.
The second one is well sourced, but draws a very generalized conclusion about religiosity, which is subjective on its own and says nothing about a belief in gods.
One of those 60 sources could offer something substantive to the discussion, but you keep avoiding primary sources and just throw out interpretations of summaries of actual studies, with the latter remaining largely unknown.
I can see why the writers kept away from reflecting future Earth its too contentious. In my fanon religious belief still exists among any human who desire to practise their belief and they are free to do so as long as said belief does not infringe on the rights of others. You want to believe its wrong to be gay, or marry 'outside your race', fine as long as your buisness practices reflect the rule of law. If you don't like the rule of law, go find a colony where you can be as religious and discriminatory as you like. But don't expect Starfleet or the Federation to protect you from the Klingons.
I do not practice religion. However, I wouldn't call myself an atheist, either.
Even though I do not practice religion, I really have no idea whether or not there is a God. Heck, if I could prove there is or isn't a God, I think I'd be one of the most famous people in history. I can say "logic and critical thinking tells me there probably isn't a God", but It would be very presumptuous and pretentious of me to act as if my logic and critical thought necessarily = reality.
So alas, I cannot prove it (prove it to other people or even prove it to myself) one way or the other, and I'm relegated to finding out for sure (or not finding out, as the case may be) only when I die.
At that point, I'll either say to myself ...."Hey, there really is a God" or I'll say....... " ".
Even though I do not practice religion, I really have no idea whether or not there is a God. Heck, if I could prove there is or isn't a God, I think I'd be one of the most famous people in history. I can say "logic and critical thinking tells me there probably isn't a God", but It would be very presumptuous and pretentious of me to act as if my logic and critical thought necessarily = reality.
So alas, I cannot prove it (prove it to other people or even prove it to myself) one way or the other, and I'm relegated to finding out for sure (or not finding out, as the case may be) only when I die.
At that point, I'll either say to myself ...."Hey, there really is a God" or I'll say....... " ".
"I don't know?" is pretty much where I am at.
Yeah. That's basically being an Atheist. I can't prove that there is no intangible, invisible hippo on my balcony either, but unless some magical hippo poop suddenly emerges, I'm gonna assume it's not there. For some reason people seem to apply this weird level of disproof requirement to God that they don't apply to other things. Normally people assume things do not exist unless there is some specific reason to assume that they do.
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I don't believe in a god because it isn't useful to believe in it. There are much better ways to occupy one's time and thoughts.
It feels like someone is furiously searching Google....
For some folks, it is useful. And I don't need to judge them on it. I'm sure lots of folks roll their eyes at the time I waste discussing Star Trek. But, it is important to me.
I have a feeling we will always be locked in with religion and belief, for good or ill, for as long as the human race survives.
In the Star Trek universe it takes the 'invasion' of aliens for humans to question and change the path they are on. Its a bit hard to argue certain beliefs from a fundamental perspective when you have a galaxy of sentient aliens whose lifestyle is nowhere near yours. Preaching 'Adam and Eve is more righteous than Adam and Steve' would leave an Andorian family rolling with laughter. According to canon it takes 4 sexes to make an Andorian marriage. Having a belief that woman are weaker than men, and having her drive a shuttle should not be allowed, when a Vulcan female can probably lift the strongest human male and not bat an inner eyelid would make your culture look ridiculous.
I have not read the novels or comics but I think McCoy father,grandfather or a male relative was a Baptist preacher, how was that handled?
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That's an agnostic. Although, an argument can be made that as an agnostic you don't believe in god, therefore you're an atheist. On the other hand, any atheist is an agnostic because if one would be provided with evidence of anything - an atheist would accept it. Thus, there's a blurry difference between the two.
That isn't canon.
True, but if someone else says they believe in a mystical God who cannot be proven or dis-proven, who am I to be so presumptuous as to think I know everything about the universe and tell them they are wrong.
I don't believe in alien visitation, either (I have seen the evidence, but still have no reason to think it is actually happening), but that doesn't mean I think the people who do believe in alien visitation are absolutely, positively, and necessarily wrong.
Maybe aliens really are visiting Earth, even though I don't think they are. Maybe there really is a supreme being who created us and is waiting to collect our souls when we die, even though I really don't think there is. I've been wrong before.
It will be sooner than that, it was not long ago the Anglican church made loads of money on the slave trade....
If I can potentially avoid eternal damnation by believing in a God, I feel that it's reasonable to do so. If there's no God or afterlife, I've lost nothing from believing. The worst case scenario is that there is a God (or multiple) and I picked the wrong one. Still, if society gradually moves on, so be it.
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