Meritocracy in Trek

[F. King Daniel]

But you know if you have to reference the Kelvin timeline, instead of the canon (I'm a big believer in the canon), then there's already something wrong.

The Kelvin timeline is part of canon, just an alternate reality. The Old Spock there is the same guy from TOS, and it continues (and ends) his story. It's referenced in Discovery, 32nd century Starfleet have had dealings with temporal agents eho crossed over from there.

I really don't think... Lets wait for Strange New Worlds? No?

Alex Kurtzman, who runs the entire Trek franchise at the moment, was co-writer of 2009 Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness, and a producer on all 3 Kelvin universe movies.

 

[James H]

Enterprise had the most realistic junior quarters.
A bunk bed, 2 lockers and a table. In a 3x3 meter room. Small but somewhat private..
... Wonder where you hang a sock on a trek door??

Haha, yeah the cramped quarters make a lot of sense in the earlier ships where things remain pretty spartan. It's one thing I don't like about the otherwise-magnificent Enterprise D: it's so big that even with a huge crew it must still be full of empty space

Do they need any encouragement?
Doesn't Star Trek work with the idea that, freed from the rat race for survival, people are just naturally enthusiastic about doing the best they can and being the best they can be?

I love this philosophy, and I think it's true that people would still work without pay if the work was useful and rewarding - just like many retired people or people who've inherited a lot of wealth often throw themselves into charity work etc . I wonder what extra privileges they have to give those people who draw the straw of being miners on the Horta planet though, or even the people who work at Utopia Planetia in Picard, that looked a lot less glamorous than I'd imagined before. Maybe there's something for everyone and with enough humans about you cab find people who enjoy these lifestyles

Again, Starfleet is rigidly hierarchical in a way that Federation society at large probably is not.

For the record, we don't actually know that George Kirk became a captain. We know that he had achieved the rank of lieutenant commander and the billet of first officer of the USS Kelvin under Captain Richard Robau in 2233, but we have no other information about his career. It is entirely possible that Lt. Comm. Kirk never advanced past that rank or billet and retired from Starfleet after Jim was born. Or it's possible he kept getting promoted and achieved the rank of Fleet Admiral! Who knows? There's absolutely no canonical info.

I kind of prefer the idea he never advanced past lieutenant commander/first officer, though.

That's a great point about hierarchies, I think I'd fallen into the trap of conflating Starfleet with the Federation at large. There's so much we still haven't seen out there.

 

[Orphalesion]

I love this philosophy, and I think it's true that people would still work without pay if the work was useful and rewarding - just like many retired people or people who've inherited a lot of wealth often throw themselves into charity work etc .

Agreed, I mean there are probably a number of people in the Federation who just lie around and play erotic holo-novels all day for their whole life, but I believe that would be the minority. The bulk of people would do *something* that interests them.

I wonder what extra privileges they have to give those people who draw the straw of being miners on the Horta planet though, or even the people who work at Utopia Planetia in Picard, that looked a lot less glamorous than I'd imagined before. Maybe there's something for everyone and with enough humans about you cab find people who enjoy these lifestyles

One of the biggest logic holes in Star Trek's world building is that, realistically, they should have hordes of little (or large, depending on the job) non-humanoid robots and drones scuttling around that do all the menial jobs humans don't want to do. Though I think that could be chalked up to budget constrictions. Like, aside from Lower Decks, where, due to the thematic of that show, the task naturally fell to the Lower Deckers, we never learned who or what cleans those spaceships.

As for stuff like mining. Again I think a lot of the menial labour should logically be given to robots, with humans taking on generally less strenuous and hazardous tasks. And in that case, I can imagine some people actually enjoying that stereotypical "miner's life" where they are away from civilization, among like-minded individuals and split their time between working and partying.

And finally as for rewards...a long while ago in a thread about replicators I brought up the idea that non-replicated objects (fabrics, furniture, clothing, jewellery) might be the United Earth's version of luxury goods that can be bought via the "credits" Dr.Crusher mentions in the TNG pilot. Those credits would then be earned through various jobs and duties.
As in, you can basically replicate whatever you want for free, but if you want non-replicated stuff (which everybody in TNG seems to loooove) you *have* to work and earn credits to purchase it.

 

[James H]

Aside from Lower Decks, where, due to the thematic of that show, the task naturally fell to the Lower Deckers, we never learned who or what cleans those spaceships.

That's very true. I think the only time we ever see a cleaner is the person who walks past Kirk as Kirk and Spock exit the Bridge Simulator at the start of Wrath of Khan. And Kirk gives them a look as if it's an unusual sight

And finally as for rewards...a long while ago in a thread about replicators I brought up the idea that non-replicated objects (fabrics, furniture, clothing, jewellery) might be the United Earth's version of luxury goods that can be bought via the "credits" Dr.Crusher mentions in the TNG pilot. Those credits would then be earned through various jobs and duties.
As in, you can basically replicate whatever you want for free, but if you want non-replicated stuff (which everybody in TNG seems to loooove) you *have* to work and earn credits to purchase it.

I like this theory and it makes a lot of sense. I also wonder if they need credits in order to have an exchange rate / trade with cultures who still use a money system. Farpoint for example was run by a non-Federation culture, I think

 

[Sci]

That's a great point about hierarchies, I think I'd fallen into the trap of conflating Starfleet with the Federation at large. There's so much we still haven't seen out there.

Thanks! Yeah, I think it's really important to remember that the Federation is an entire society comprised of over 150 Member States, and the Member States themselves often have more than one planet in their territory. So the Federation is just this mind-bogglingly huge society, and we've only seen a tiny sliver (about 15-20 Starfleet crews out of over 7,000 crews in all of Starfleet) of a tiny sliver (Starfleet itself) of the entire UFP.

 

[valkyrie013]

From what I've seen/read not every planet goes with a "Currency Less" society
From Tos and Ds9, there was talk of credits, like a Tribble costing 5 credits a peace, and them going to Quarks and participating at the dabo table.
Some people "own" there own ships, from a shuttle, to a big ship. They don't just give them away, so there must be a system in place.
Maybe a federation membership rule, you don't have to outlaw currency, but you must set an absolute minimum floor there citizens can be at. Maybe make it where if one wants a job, one can find a job so one can move up in life. Well given that any type of social system, capitalistc, solcialistic, or communist, will never be run "perfectly". Checks and balances would need to be instituted. I doubt the federation would let enter a Dictatorship, or a complete meritocracy, but then, if the planet has something it needs, dilithium etc, rules can change, like the Cloud minders...

 

[Henoch]

From what I've seen/read not every planet goes with a "Currency Less" society
From Tos and Ds9, there was talk of credits, like a Tribble costing 5 credits a peace, and them going to Quarks and participating at the dabo table.
Some people "own" there own ships, from a shuttle, to a big ship. They don't just give them away, so there must be a system in place.
Maybe a federation membership rule, you don't have to outlaw currency, but you must set an absolute minimum floor there citizens can be at. Maybe make it where if one wants a job, one can find a job so one can move up in life. Well given that any type of social system, capitalistc, solcialistic, or communist, will never be run "perfectly". Checks and balances would need to be instituted. I doubt the federation would let enter a Dictatorship, or a complete meritocracy, but then, if the planet has something it needs, dilithium etc, rules can change, like the Cloud minders...

Mudd's Women:

MUDD: Oh, you beautiful galaxy! Oh, that heavenly universe! Well, girls, lithium miners. Don't you understand? Lonely, isolated, overworked, rich lithium miners! Girls, do you still want husbands, hmm? Evie, you won't be satisfied with a mere ship's captain. I'll get you a man who can buy you a whole planet. Maggie, you're going to be a countess. Ruth, I'll make you a duchess. And I, I'll be running this starship. Captain James Kirk, the next orders you're taking will be given by Harcourt Fenton Mudd!

Explains why people go into mining...to get rich.

MUDD: Perfect. Perfect. Three of them and three lovely ladies has Harry Mudd. And lithium crystals, my dear, are worth three hundred times their weight in diamonds, thousands of times their weight in gold.

Suggests that diamonds and gold still have significant value.

CHILDRESS: Let's get right to business. You want lithium crystals and we've got them.
KIRK: Fine. I'm authorised to pay an equitable price.
CHILDRESS: We're not sure they're for sale, Captain. We might prefer a swap.

No mention of units of currency such as the Federation Credit.

KIRK: No deal. You're a long way out in space, gentlemen. You'll need medical help, cargo runs, starship protection. You want to consider those facts too?

Maybe Kirk is letting us know what he was planning to use for payment: Starfleet services and protection. The currency seems non-existent, but you can trade a very big pile of lithium crystals for a planet; sounds like one or more star empire(s) are without lithium and would trade one of their planets for it. It also sounds like the mining operation and planet are not owned/claimed by United Earth, either. YMMV.

<later edit: one side note could be that the mining planet is within the boundaries of Federation space, and not aligned with the Federation instead the three miners somehow got control of the planet (or its mineral rights). Perhaps they discovered the planet on their own without Federation assistance and put in a claim, and thus, not under the Federation per some legal loophole. One loophole is that only those three miners and no one else can work the site. Additionally, they seem to have an exclusive deal or legal requirement to sell their crystals only to the Federation and their approved client list (no Klingons, Orions, etc.). I guess it comes down to Federation or United Earth law on deserted planets as it pertains to discovery of minerals (Rigel 12 and the Janus 6 Colony) and ancient knowledge (Prof. Crater and Nancy on planet M-113.)>