Meritocracy in Trek

[Sci]

I would imagine Starfleet provides housing to any officer who requests it. But even with the density limits, I think there's a good chance that development is so cheap resource-wise that there are a lot of new cities in areas that are now undeveloped, with plenty of space left over.

 

[XCV330]

I would imagine Starfleet provides housing to any officer who requests it. But even with the density limits, I think there's a good chance that development is so cheap resource-wise that there are a lot of new cities in areas that are now undeveloped, with plenty of space left over.

Maybe. There had to be some reason that Earth was trying to build a new continent, though I don't think there's been a single thing said about New Atlantis Project after Picard didn't take the job.

 

[valkyrie013]

Going back to Meritocracy abit, and taking in the Ensign Kim apartment..
I've always thought the Star Trek future was a socialist utopia, nobody wants for anything etc. However, you do have some kind of reward, Some people being more equal than others.

Yes, there is a floor, if you are born and literally do nothing, you have an apartment, food, etc. But if you go out into the world and do, something, you get rewarded, a nicer apartment with a view maybe. So Ensign Kim, being in starfleet, and having a designer post rates him for an X amount of square feet apartment, maybe the nice view was available, so he asked for it. Basically, there has to be some kind of reward system to people doing work, or there would be Zero reason to do said work.

as said, Rafi fell to the bottom, but she still had a place, food etc. but it wasn't a chateau. Picard had the chateau because he was making wine, he may have gotten out of starfleet, but he was still being productive. how did he get the land? Maybe it was in the family since say the 19th century, and the earth government, or whatever bureau lets him keep the land as long as he or his family is being productive with it. I'm sure if somebody came along, saying he/she wanted to grow grapes for wine, that they'd go ask whatever bureau of land managment for a parcel of land. If available, they'll say yes or no, they may have to submit a proposal of what they want to do. But lets say they get 5 acres, they do well, and ask for more land. or they fail, and they get there land taken back and redistributed to someone who wants to try X or Y.

 

[XCV330]

Going back to Meritocracy abit, and taking in the Ensign Kim apartment..
I've always thought the Star Trek future was a socialist utopia, nobody wants for anything etc. However, you do have some kind of reward, Some people being more equal than others.

Yes, there is a floor, if you are born and literally do nothing, you have an apartment, food, etc. But if you go out into the world and do, something, you get rewarded, a nicer apartment with a view maybe. So Ensign Kim, being in starfleet, and having a designer post rates him for an X amount of square feet apartment, maybe the nice view was available, so he asked for it. Basically, there has to be some kind of reward system to people doing work, or there would be Zero reason to do said work.

as said, Rafi fell to the bottom, but she still had a place, food etc. but it wasn't a chateau. Picard had the chateau because he was making wine, he may have gotten out of starfleet, but he was still being productive. how did he get the land? Maybe it was in the family since say the 19th century, and the earth government, or whatever bureau lets him keep the land as long as he or his family is being productive with it. I'm sure if somebody came along, saying he/she wanted to grow grapes for wine, that they'd go ask whatever bureau of land managment for a parcel of land. If available, they'll say yes or no, they may have to submit a proposal of what they want to do. But lets say they get 5 acres, they do well, and ask for more land. or they fail, and they get there land taken back and redistributed to someone who wants to try X or Y.

If a Beach house, all the snake weed you can handle, and early retirement are falling-to-the bottom, someone kick me in Rafi's direction.

I like that they show the United Earth government isn't taking away land from families that have held on to it. That would be a nightmare scenario. Until ST:Beyond, Star Trek seemed reluctant to go showing off-world habitats. When they did, they went all-in. With all the terraforming and living options available, plus the likelyhood of a lot of food being syntheized or replicated, I agree, someone wanting to setup a vineyard, or apiary or something artisan like that should be able to get access to it.

The elimination of labor frees up people to do all manner of things they might not have otherwise, and yes, they should get some sort of compensation for going above the norm. There will be "takers" that just live on the UBL, watch free holovids and pass on without leaving a dent, but that's ok for them too.

 

[Sci]

Maybe. There had to be some reason that Earth was trying to build a new continent, though I don't think there's been a single thing said about New Atlantis Project after Picard didn't take the job.

I honestly just figured that one was a "let's see if we can" kind of thing. Which I assume is a valid motive for major engineering projects in a post-scarcity society.

Going back to Meritocracy abit, and taking in the Ensign Kim apartment..
I've always thought the Star Trek future was a socialist utopia, nobody wants for anything etc. However, you do have some kind of reward, Some people being more equal than others.

Maybe, but I think the range of inequality would be fairly limited. Democracies have a valid societal influence in limiting the accumulation of wealth, since such accumulation tends to have an anti-democratic impact on politics and economics.

Yes, there is a floor, if you are born and literally do nothing, you have an apartment, food, etc. But if you go out into the world and do, something, you get rewarded, a nicer apartment with a view maybe. So Ensign Kim, being in starfleet, and having a designer post rates him for an X amount of square feet apartment, maybe the nice view was available, so he asked for it. Basically, there has to be some kind of reward system to people doing work, or there would be Zero reason to do said work.

Yeah, I think it's important to bear in mind that Starfleet, with its hierarchical nature, may function very differently in some ways than the civilian Federation society.

as said, Rafi fell to the bottom, but she still had a place, food etc. but it wasn't a chateau. Picard had the chateau because he was making wine, he may have gotten out of starfleet, but he was still being productive. how did he get the land? Maybe it was in the family since say the 19th century, and the earth government, or whatever bureau lets him keep the land as long as he or his family is being productive with it. I'm sure if somebody came along, saying he/she wanted to grow grapes for wine, that they'd go ask whatever bureau of land managment for a parcel of land. If available, they'll say yes or no, they may have to submit a proposal of what they want to do. But lets say they get 5 acres, they do well, and ask for more land. or they fail, and they get there land taken back and redistributed to someone who wants to try X or Y.

Well if nothing else, we know from PIC S1 that there are a lot of mega-structures on Earth -- we see them in the distance in scenes set in La Barre and Okinawa. So I imagine that those mega-structures are providing a lot of high-quality housing for people.

 

[Tuskin38]

and we know from Generations that it's only been in the family since the early 2200s.

Nothing in Generations said that. It was in the Family Album prop yes, but that page was never seen on screen in the movie, so it isn't canon.

We did see a vintage 2249 bottle in Discovery, and vintage 2294 was mentioned to be a good year in a TNG episode. So the wine was being made in the mid 23rd Century.

Picard Season 2 Trailer footage

Spoiler

I think we might be seeing the 2024 Chateau in Season 2. There's shots of them in a old house, which also seems to be used for flash backs related to Picard.

In the 2024 shots it seems to be in disrepair, so it isn't being used at that point in time

 

[XCV330]

. So I imagine that those mega-structures are providing a lot of high-quality housing for people.

I assume those are fornicarium fortresses for Love Instructors to continue their important and ancient trade, unimpeded and uninterrupted.

 

[valkyrie013]

Well, what is the population of Earth in say 2399 Picard time?
Billions?
Alot of the humans in Starfleet seem to be from Earth, and not a colony, etc.

 

[Oddish]

Who knows what the population is? Have you seen a couple with three or more children? The population may have been in slow decline for a very long time. Add that to terraformed deserts, oceanic habitats, and kilometer-high skyscrapers, and there's probably enough space to give most folks a pretty decent pad.

 

[dupersuper]

Or long held traditions.

I don’t know. Certainly as you say, money isn’t part of the equation, yet the Picard family do clearly own a lot of land which is something that could potentially come at some kind of premium.

A little, but with numerous colonies and starbases, holodecks, reliable birth control, a clean pollution free environment...land is likely far from the huge deal Lex Luthor sees it as these days.

Qark and Rom's mother is the Grand Nagus

I think you missed a word there...

 

[F. King Daniel]

You guys are talking about real estate and I'm still struggling with why Lower Decks crew have inferior replicators to the senior staff, and why they have to live in a corridor. It must be some deliberate choice to encourage advancement in Starfeet, yes?

 

[James H]

You guys are talking about real estate and I'm still struggling with why Lower Decks crew have inferior replicators to the senior staff, and why they have to live in a corridor. It must be some deliberate choice to encourage advancement in Starfeet, yes?

The same way junior officers never seemed to have windows in their quarters in TNG when that ship surely had more windows than it had crew members - about 3000 windows to 1000 crew members. I realise that rooms have multiple windows and not all rooms are crew quarters, but when even the lower members of the bridge crew like Data and Worf live in the bowels of the ship.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

, but when even the lower members of the bridge crew like Data and Worf live in the bowels of the ship.

I can see Data not caring for a Window in his room since he's an Android.

Same with Worf, but for different reasons. It's not "Spartan Enough" for his tastes.

Having a Window might be too "Cozy/Comfy" and a sign of weakness for a warrior.

Something he would avoid.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

You guys are talking about real estate and I'm still struggling with why Lower Decks crew have inferior replicators to the senior staff, and why they have to live in a corridor. It must be some deliberate choice to encourage advancement in Starfeet, yes?

Do we have dimensions for the Cerritos? Inferior replicators, I don 't know, but in terms of the corridor, there's only so much space aboard a starship I guess.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Do we have dimensions for the Cerritos? Inferior replicators, I don 't know, but in terms of the corridor, there's only so much space aboard a starship I guess.

If it's just Dorm Room style living, I can't see why lower level officers can't just share a common set of quarters together.

Designing good Dorm Style Quarters should be easy.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

If it's just Dorm Room style living, I can't see why lower level officers can't just share a common set of quarters together.

Designing good Dorm Style Quarters should be easy.

It's part of the joke though isn't it? Just as the inferior replicators are. It makes them that bit more underprivileged and downtrodden, even if technically speaking Starfleet isn't supposed to be like that.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

It's part of the joke though isn't it? Just as the inferior replicators are. It makes them that bit more underprivileged and downtrodden, even if technically speaking Starfleet isn't supposed to be like that.

And here, I thought Triple Level Bunk Beds or Dorm Style Quarters would be "Demeaning" or "Under Privileged" & DownTrodden" enough.

Having to share one set of Quarters with 5x other junior officers is pretty bad.

That means a communal Living Room, Showers, Replicators, etc.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Do we have dimensions for the Cerritos? Inferior replicators, I don 't know, but in terms of the corridor, there's only so much space aboard a starship I guess.

This is the official size. The recent shipyards book erroneously made her a lot bigger than this!

 

[Richard S. Ta]

And here, I thought Triple Level Bunk Beds or Dorm Style Quarters would be "Demeaning" or "Under Privileged" & DownTrodden" enough.

Having to share one set of Quarters with 5x other junior officers is pretty bad.

That means a communal Living Room, Showers, Replicators, etc.

Well I didn't write it... I just assume that's the rationale behind it.

But you know:

This is the official size. The recent shipyards book erroneously made her a lot bigger than this!

When I see that, it doesn't make any sense at all.

I always assumed the Cerritos was more in line with the Grissom. Unless someone is going to tell me that actually the Grissom was huge and I don't know nothing about nothing? That usually happens.

 

[James H]

This is the official size. The recent shipyards book erroneously made her a lot bigger than this!

Oh nice, thanks for that

I can see Data not caring for a Window in his room since he's an Android.

Same with Worf, but for different reasons. It's not "Spartan Enough" for his tastes.

Having a Window might be too "Cozy/Comfy" and a sign of weakness for a warrior.

Something he would avoid.

I could definitely imagine this, though it would be a shame to miss out on all those amazing views - did we ever see Geordi's quarters for comparison?