Measure of a Man: what would really have happened in such a scenario?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by at Quark's, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. Kaelef

    Kaelef Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    And we're all just sacks of bologna.
     
  2. Kaelef

    Kaelef Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    A lot of people remember Pulaski that way, but I just watched season two over the last couple of days, and that's not the way she was. She certainly was blunt and openly questioning of him the first couple of episodes, but it was never played as "bigotry". She was figuring him out and determining how much more than a machine he was. By the end, she was openly supportive of him, not just "softened".

    If you want to talk about someone who was treated badly, talk about Worf. I never liked the character, but no one in the first couple of seasons was constantly rejected, no one's objections were overruled, and no one's opinions were dismissed as much as Worf's. It got to the point we're I felt sorry for him. Wesley was a distant second in this regard.
     
  3. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    At the beginner of Voyager I felt sorry for how the Doctor was treated-- not being considered, left out of conversations, forgetting to "turn him off" etc. When he seemed the least emotional, I felt more sorry for him.

    But by season 6 he jumped the shark too far for me. The emergency Command Hologram, his "daydreaming" his novel, it was too much for me. It went into comedy territory. Ironically, the further he insisted that he 'exceeded his programming' with all of this comedy, the harder it was to take him seriously.




     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I always assumed that Data is a citizen of Earth because Dr. Soong (who created him) was.
     
  5. Herbert

    Herbert Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree with those having issues with the premise of this episode. Maddox was the only one who opposed Data's entry into Starfleet on the grounds that he wasn't sentient. Even though I enjoy this episode, it seems pretty silly.

    Did anyone else besides me want to punch Maddox's lights out? I know I sure did.
     
  6. Herbert

    Herbert Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree. They took his desires for "exceeding his programming" a bit too far.
     
  7. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Commodore Commodore

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    No we are ugly bags of mostly water - ST TNG Home soil episode
    according to the aliens who were mostly lumps of poo :lol:
     
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  8. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, it is hard to believe that human nature would change that much in only a few hundred years, as TNG posits (or at least as the characters like to constantly claim). I find Kirk's statement at the end of "This Side of Paradise" to be a much more realistic comment on humanity: "Maybe we weren't meant for paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through. Struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute. We must march to the sound of drums."

    Kor
     
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  9. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It just seemed like it got too overbearing. I know they were trying to revisit Measure of a Man with the "Photons Be Free!" thing, but it felt too over top and obnoxious.
     
  10. Kaelef

    Kaelef Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I'll just add that the way Trek dealt with characters created within the holodeck going back to season one of TNG was inherently ridiculous, or at least wildly inconsistent with the way artificial intelligence is dealt with everywhere else in the Trek universe. Computer-generated characters were presented as being effectively fully sentient - obviating the need for most, if not all the living crew. They also made the computer systems used throughout the rest ship seem like abacuses in comparison. Basically, the holodeck and related technologies could create countless entities with greater depth and emotional understanding than Data.

    Not that I didn't find it deeply silly, but, in that context, I don't know that there was that much of a stretch from what The Doctor was at the beginning of Voyager to what he was at the end.