Measure of a Man: what would really have happened in such a scenario?

[Kaelef]

Data would have been parts spread across the floor in Maddux' lab.

As much as I like Data, he is a toaster. An advanced toaster, but a toaster. Same with the Doctor from Voyager: holographic toaster.

And we're all just sacks of bologna.

 

[Kaelef]

Yeah, when you look at season 1 all the way up until 5 and beyond Data gets treated pretty unfairly. Not to mention Dr. Pulaski who was very blunt with her bigotry of Data as an android, although she seemed to soften later on.

A lot of people remember Pulaski that way, but I just watched season two over the last couple of days, and that's not the way she was. She certainly was blunt and openly questioning of him the first couple of episodes, but it was never played as "bigotry". She was figuring him out and determining how much more than a machine he was. By the end, she was openly supportive of him, not just "softened".

If you want to talk about someone who was treated badly, talk about Worf. I never liked the character, but no one in the first couple of seasons was constantly rejected, no one's objections were overruled, and no one's opinions were dismissed as much as Worf's. It got to the point we're I felt sorry for him. Wesley was a distant second in this regard.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Data would have been parts spread across the floor in Maddux' lab.

As much as I like Data, he is a toaster. An advanced toaster, but a toaster. Same with the Doctor from Voyager: holographic toaster.

At the beginner of Voyager I felt sorry for how the Doctor was treated-- not being considered, left out of conversations, forgetting to "turn him off" etc. When he seemed the least emotional, I felt more sorry for him.

But by season 6 he jumped the shark too far for me. The emergency Command Hologram, his "daydreaming" his novel, it was too much for me. It went into comedy territory. Ironically, the further he insisted that he 'exceeded his programming' with all of this comedy, the harder it was to take him seriously.

A lot of people remember Pulaski that way, but I just watched season two over the last couple of days, and that's not the way she was. She certainly was blunt and openly questioning of him the first couple of episodes, but it was never played as "bigotry". She was figuring him out and determining how much more than a machine he was. By the end, she was openly supportive of him, not just "softened".

But Pulaski had a habit of referring to him "it" and in his presence, which tagged him as unworthy of rights or respect, which is dangerously close to bigotry. It's true though that she visibly seemed to change her views of Data not too long before her last appearances. She acknowledged his "humanity".

If you want to talk about someone who was treated badly, talk about Worf. I never liked the character, but no one in the first couple of seasons was constantly rejected, no one's objections were overruled, and no one's opinions were dismissed as much as Worf's. It got to the point we're I felt sorry for him. Wesley was a distant second in this regard.

What's really funny is seeing how he reacts when they turn them down. He looks so pissed off. Funny thing is in the episode where he warned Riker about the Pakleds and he didn't listen, he turned out to be right all along.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Not all Starfleet personnel are Federation citizens, was it ever mention that Data is "a citizen?"

I always assumed that Data is a citizen of Earth because Dr. Soong (who created him) was.

 

[Herbert]

I agree with those having issues with the premise of this episode. Maddox was the only one who opposed Data's entry into Starfleet on the grounds that he wasn't sentient. Even though I enjoy this episode, it seems pretty silly.

Did anyone else besides me want to punch Maddox's lights out? I know I sure did.

 

[Herbert]

At the beginner of Voyager I felt sorry for how the Doctor was treated-- not being considered, left out of conversations, forgetting to "turn him off" etc. When he seemed the least emotional, I felt more sorry for him.

But by season 6 he jumped the shark too far for me. The emergency Command Hologram, his "daydreaming" his novel, it was too much for me. It went into comedy territory. Ironically, the further he insisted that he 'exceeded his programming' with all of this comedy, the harder it was to take him seriously.

I agree. They took his desires for "exceeding his programming" a bit too far.

 

[Nyotarules]

And we're all just sacks of bologna.

No we are ugly bags of mostly water - ST TNG Home soil episode
according to the aliens who were mostly lumps of poo

 

[Kor]

But they still have professions & career paths etc... Part of becoming good at something is repetition. These people are still pilots, engineers, scientists, doctors. They still do the same stuff we do. They just have different goals mostly. There is no mistaking in my mind that we're supposed to see these people as being slightly more evolved than us, such that these things come easier to them, & therefore they can take on more, or at the very least, there has been a grand societal shift, where having access to an inexhaustible amount of resources & encyclopedic knowledge has spurred them as individuals to use it to its fullest

Truthfully however, we as a species tend to decline in circumstances like that. We actually thrive better in the face of opposition, & resistance. Necessity being the mother of invention etc... It's pretty cool that they can do all this stuff, but it's also hard to identify with at times, because our very nature opposes it mostly. It really is fantasy at its most fantastic. They are supermen, in a way, & their superpower is technology has brought them an era of great personal growth

Yes, it is hard to believe that human nature would change that much in only a few hundred years, as TNG posits (or at least as the characters like to constantly claim). I find Kirk's statement at the end of "This Side of Paradise" to be a much more realistic comment on humanity: "Maybe we weren't meant for paradise. Maybe we were meant to fight our way through. Struggle, claw our way up, scratch for every inch of the way. Maybe we can't stroll to the music of the lute. We must march to the sound of drums."

Kor

 

[Nightdiamond]

I agree. They took his desires for "exceeding his programming" a bit too far.

It just seemed like it got too overbearing. I know they were trying to revisit Measure of a Man with the "Photons Be Free!" thing, but it felt too over top and obnoxious.

 

[Kaelef]

It just seemed like it got too overbearing. I know they were trying to revisit Measure of a Man with the "Photons Be Free!" thing, but it felt too over top and obnoxious.

I'll just add that the way Trek dealt with characters created within the holodeck going back to season one of TNG was inherently ridiculous, or at least wildly inconsistent with the way artificial intelligence is dealt with everywhere else in the Trek universe. Computer-generated characters were presented as being effectively fully sentient - obviating the need for most, if not all the living crew. They also made the computer systems used throughout the rest ship seem like abacuses in comparison. Basically, the holodeck and related technologies could create countless entities with greater depth and emotional understanding than Data.

Not that I didn't find it deeply silly, but, in that context, I don't know that there was that much of a stretch from what The Doctor was at the beginning of Voyager to what he was at the end.