Maybe we shouldn't close Gitmo so quickly

[Pingfah]

Of course there may be people that are there for a reason.

But it's the US's treatment of those people that puts us on a level no
better than the "Terrorists" are we claim to be the lowest form of life.

Gitmo is gone. Good riddence. As are alot of ilegal and wrong things done
in the name of "The War on Terror".

Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me.
Why the Gitmo policies may not change

There may be less than meets the eye to the executive orders President Obama issued yesterday to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay and prohibit the torture of prisoners in American custody. Those pronouncements may sound dramatic and unequivocal, but experts predict that American policy towards detainees could remain for months or even years pretty close to what it was as President Bush left office.
“I think the administration’s commitment to close Guantanamo is heartening; the fact they want to give themselves a year to do it, not so much,”, said Ramzi Kassem, a Yale Law School lecturer who represents prisoners like inmate Ahmed Zuhair, who was captured in Pakistan in 2001. “That would bring men like my client to eight years imprisonment for no apparent reason.”

A section of Obama’s order on Guantanamo entitled “Humane Standards of Confinement” orders Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to spend the next thirty days reviewing the current conditions at the Caribbean prison to make sure they’re legal and follow the Geneva Convention. It seems doubtful that Gates, who has been atop the chain of command for Guantanamo for more than two years, will suddenly find conditions that were just fine on Monday of this week are now flagrant violations of the Geneva Convention.
“He’s not exactly impartial,” Kassem said.
Waxman pointed out that adhering to the Geneva Condition is “already the law,” and deemed that section of the order “bizarre.”

3. Obama vowed no torture on his watch, but force-feeding and solitary confinement apparently continue at Guantanamo for now.

Basically, don't count your chickens before they hatch.

Oh gee, thanks for the info, we had no idea it might remain open for a year, considering it says that in every single article

Also, force feeding inmates who try to starve themselves and solitary confinement take place at ALL jails.

 

[Lindley]

It shouldn't be necessary to prove one's innocence. I seem to recall hearing something about that somewhere.

 

[Pingfah]

Keep in mind Lindley and Pingfah, you're also talking to the same guy who wants the death pentalty carried out more quickly with less and faster appeals, and thinks innocent people would generally be able to prove their innocence. It happens sometimes. It's unfortunate. But if it makes us safer, then it's a necessary evil in my book.

Wow, that's your reasoning for abandoning a fair justice system??

Well, locking up every muslim in America might make you a teensy bit safer as well since you'll likely take a few terrorists with them. Good idea then?

 

[SPOCKED]

They have a pretty cushy life there until they get sent back to join forces killing our guys, again.

You are very adept at the concept of humor.

Indeed he is. You always make me laugh, Gertchy

 

[pajamahead]

I wonder how many were terrorist b4 going to Gitmo. Then after wonderful treatment at Gitmo, they decide to become terrorist.

 

[SPOCKED]

I wonder how many were terrorist b4 going to Gitmo. Then after wonderful treatment at Gitmo, they decide to become terrorist.

That's a very positronic.. erm, I mean pessimistic outlook, pajamahead

 

[adv1701]

How do they treat our guys when they take them as prisoners,oh right the chop off their heads,disembowl them and parade them through the streets. Oh but we can't keep someone awake for 24 hours in a cold room listeing to metallica,sounds like college in Minnesota. You lefties amaze me,if a member of your family was in danger and traeting someone harshly was going to save them you would not do it? If you say you wouldn't you are full of it!

 

[Pingfah]

How do they treat our guys when they take them as prisoners,oh right the chop off their heads,disembowl them and parade them through the streets. Oh but we can't keep someone awake for 24 hours in a cold room listeing to metallica,sounds like college in Minnesota. You lefties amaze me,if a member of your family was in danger and traeting someone harshly was going to save them you would not do it? If you say you wouldn't you are full of it!

I see you've really cut to the heart of the issue and understood everybody's concerns

 

[archeryguy1701]

Well, locking up every muslim in America might make you a teensy bit safer as well since you'll likely take a few terrorists with them. Good idea then?

No, because unlike most other Americans, I know that terrorists don't just come in the Islamic flavor. Instead, I'm in favor of just locking everybody up until we can prove out innocence. That way, no one will ever get hurt!

If there's a decent reason to suspect them, lock them up and sort it out later. Being Muslim or Islamic isn't a decent reason.

 

[Pingfah]

OK fine, a fair justice system really doesn't mean a thing to you then. Can't really argue with that.

 

[Augustus]

Well, locking up every muslim in America might make you a teensy bit safer as well since you'll likely take a few terrorists with them. Good idea then?

No, because unlike most other Americans, I know that terrorists don't just come in the Islamic flavor. Instead, I'm in favor of just locking everybody up until we can prove out innocence. That way, no one will ever get hurt!

If there's a decent reason to suspect them, lock them up and sort it out later. Being Muslim or Islamic isn't a decent reason.

I will tend to agree with you over the other side. But I think this is mostly a non-issue. How many innocent people have been locked up in Gitmo, especially American citizens, and been treated like terrorists and never freed?

I don't think that we are talking about a pattern of the government locking up muslims just because they are muslims.

 

[Pingfah]

"Mostly" a non issue. This is the problem, you have a "acceptable losses" ratio. Tell me, how many innocents would be OK? One? Two? A Hundred?

What formula do you use to work that out then?

 

[Augustus]

I say mostly to leave room for error, I am not aware of any instances where innocent people are being held and detained forever without cause. If you have some info on that, please let me know.

 

[Pingfah]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...journalist-held-in-guantanamo-bay-451938.html

 

[Lindley]

If they're *known* innocent they wouldn't be there, even with our previous administration's policies. I should think that would be obvious. It's the innocent-but-still-suspected who are the concern.

"How many people does it take, Admiral!?"

 

[Pingfah]

Yes Lindley they are missing the point, the point is, if you don't give them a fair trial you don't know if they are innocent.

This is THE POINT of your justice system Augustus, are you really so blind to this?

 

[Augustus]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...journalist-held-in-guantanamo-bay-451938.html

I did some research on your man in this article and he certainly had ties to Chechan terrorists (spelling) financing. Several times he was found carrying hundreds of thousands of dollars to them. He had also done enough to be included on a Pakistani border watch list, which was the reason he was detained in the first place. He worked for known terrorists before working for Al-Jazeera.

Now, I am not so sure why they would detain him so long. He is apparently free now, back in Sudan. I would have detained him initially, but I would disagree with his continued detention based on civilian justice. But in war, things are different. That is the whole point of having a different detention facility, court system and all that during war time. There is a different and lesser burden of proof standard.

You can disagree with that if you want, but I will disagree that this man's prolonged detention is damning to the purpose of Gitmo

 

[Pingfah]

Please refer to my post above yours, you are not at war with these people that's just a convenient description to allow you to do what you want.

 

[Augustus]

I don't think the point of the system is to imprison innocent people, or even people that might be innocent.

 

[Pingfah]

I don't think anybody thinks that is the point of the system, it's a possible result though...