Maximum speed of the NuEnterprise

I know. Here it is again:

Yes... right after speculating. But then again, apparently some speculations are unassailable while others are not.

Well, I'm discussing what's possible, since the dismissal of my position implied its alleged impossibility.

Orci apparently said that the distress call was faked by Nero. So much for your Spock's wormhole theory. Should have stuck to the facts...

...but I see you've already abandoned the idea that it had anything to do with Spock's wormhole. Isn't it strange that an idea allegedly based on EVIDENCE rather than SPECULATION was so easily discarded?

 

I love how you imagine the wildest things about TVH in order to... in order to what actually?

 

ANYTHING is possible. But not everything is plausible. Plausibility in the face of facts requires some consistency WITH the facts. You seem to be satisfied by consistency with lack of facts, which is illogical. That's what it means to say "You can't prove a negative:" lack of data is not data.

Assuming this is true (and I rather doubt it) you are at least two days late to that particular observation.

Although, if Orci is on record suggesting that, all questions are answered, and you can stop whining about your possibilities; they're NOT possible, because (in that event) we know what really happened.

Speculation based on evidence is speculation based on evidence. Speculation based on nothing is... well, bullshitting.

 

The better to build his straw man.

 

That's right, I just imagined that the trip from Earth to Vulcan is depicted as taking place in less than a day. If I didn't see it as however-the-hell-you-think-I-should-have-seen-it I must be hallucinating.

 

Well, you base your assumptions on a visual effect (one that was also recycled from TSFS, I believe), I base mine on dialogue, scene structure and editing.

In TMP and TWOK, ships are shown having streaks while accelerating. Once they broke the warp barrier, there were no streak anymore.

So you can't really argue with consistency of visual effects in the movie era, I'm afraid.

 

There ya go, using logic....

 

No, I base the assumption on a matter of timing and plot logic, exactly the way you and others did when complaining about STXI's Earth-Vulcan run. And you'll note upthread that to support this assumption I already referenced other canon materials that suggest both warp drive and impulse power are ALOT faster than we've been lead to believe even in the prime universe.

And the dialog, scene structure and editing in TVH imply that the trip from Vulcan to Earth required only a couple of hours at impulse power.

A convention which is already broken in the second (of two) depictions of warp drive in the film, and discarded entirely in TSFS. By The Voyage Home the streaks are a permanent feature of ANY starship at warp, and again clearly depicted in TUC and the opening scene of Generations.

They seem perfectly consistent to me. I was referring to the apparent inconsistency of the Earth-Vulcan journey never taking more than a day even under impulse power. The only dialog in all of Trek history (AFAIK) to imply a longer voyage is in TMP, where Scotty mentions he can have Spock back on Vulcan "in four days," though it is never made clear if he means before or after a "proper shakedown." If he means after, it's possible they could return Spock to Vulcan in under half an hour IF they warped directly there (and maybe half a day if they went all the way there on impulse power).

 

When do they mention that they are on impulse power?

I see streaks in TVH every time the BoP or the Enterprise accelerate, just as in TMP and TWOK. When they where flying towards the sun, they got faster and faster.
Who's to say that this didn't also happen in TSFS, TUC or Generations, when the ships swoosh past the camera? And then there's also the scene in Generations where the Enterprise chases the Nexus, presumably at warp, too, because the stars are moving quite fast, and there are no streaks at all. And THEN it actually makes no sense at all to argue with effects of movies made after TVH.

 

HAVE AT THEE, MAN OF STRAW!!

 

^So you're reduced to being a cheerleader now? How apt.

 

A few more cheers:

The idea that warp streaks would be associated with acceleration seems perfectly defensible throughout the material, so I'm now officially sold on it. The silly dust clouds of ST:NEM warp accelerations probably belong to the same category... Most TNG ships just happened to be more environmentally friendly, not leaving any rainbows behind at acceleration.

The idea that the BoP in ST4 would have spanned significant distances at impulse is such an oddball one that it would require significant proof, or then serve as a hinge point in some really helpful theory of warp, the universe and everything. Currently, it doesn't seem to do either. There's no indication of the time spent underway, there's quite a bit of indication that the BoP was already on Earth's doorstep when we first saw her, and neither of these issues is affected by our interpretation of the contrail-free exterior view. We're free to choose whether the BoP is at warp or impulse there, neither choice forcing us to believe that the Vulcan-Earth distance can be spanned by impulse speed.

That's a bit hard to swallow. Scotty wanted to test the ship for three and a half days before getting Spock home, but said nary a word when Kirk instead told him to warp the ship directly to interstellar adventures "thataway"? Surely Scotty wouldn't have made his initial objection if the solution to it was as trivial as equating "thataway" with "towards 40 Eri"!

Four days to Vulcan would have to mean starting there and then, just like the "thataway" voyage was started. But yes, it might well include some low-speed testing and whatnot, stretching the duration.

Timo Saloniemi

 

Which applies to the conspicuous absence of data supporting the wormhole theory.
And you did in fact try to prove a negative, while simultaneously proclaiming the impossibility of such a quest, thus dooming yourself to failure at the outset.

Completely irrelevant. I didn't know it was a race. Do I at least get the silver medal?

That's what I said.

Exactly. The body of evidence and canon argued against the presumed seismic disturbances having anything at all to do with Spock's wormhole. That's where the bullshitting came in. One possibility based on speculation is as good as another.