Matt Jefferies original shuttle design

[RedSpar]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

I don't even think Matt Jefferies considered the hanger deck size when he sketched this out (which probably wasn't even finalized either when he sketched this shuttle). This project is really just about being true-(ish) to his sketches vs worrying about shuttlebay logistics.

This shuttle does have a much smaller hatch door than a stock TOS shuttle...it's more like what you would see on a lear jet, where you'd have to duck a bit to get out. So the door size may be deceiving and throwing off the expected scale a bit. I would say this is only a little bit bigger than a Type 7

When I get it done I will get exact real world dimensions measured up on this ship.

 

[Warped9]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

Larger shuttlecraft are nice, but keep in mind that these vehicles need to fit within the existing hangar deck facilities.

Not all ships would be the same, and not all hangar facilities would be the same. In fact, it is arguable that a ship and its hangar facilities would be designed specifically with its intended shuttle complement foremost in mind.

So, a ship intended to carry this shuttle would have different hangar facilities than the Enterprise. If Enterprise needed to rendezvous with such a large shuttle, it would either bring it onto the flight deck and not take it below, or if too large to bring inside, simply bring it alongside and use beaming (or external docking) for transmission of people and cargo.

BTW, I see several of this style of shuttle in service. One might be small and more narrow, with one forward window. Another might be midsized, with two forward windows. Finally, this one might be the biggest of the bunch, perhaps not even meant to be brought aboard any but the largest of ships.

Agreed. I was thinking in terms of whether RedSpar wanted to have this vehicle fit aboard a Constitution-class vessel.

I have another thought: perhaps one could consider this design as a predecessor to the TAS scoutship design. That would allow you to scale the craft a little larger to fulfill this role of long range transport.

 

[aridas sofia]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

I don't even think Matt Jefferies considered the hanger deck size when he sketched this out (which probably wasn't even finalized either when he sketched this shuttle). This project is really just about being true-(ish) to his sketches vs worrying about shuttlebay logistics.

This shuttle does have a much smaller hatch door than a stock TOS shuttle...it's more like what you would see on a lear jet, where you'd have to duck a bit to get out. So the door size may be deceiving and throwing off the expected scale a bit. I would say this is only a little bit bigger than a Type 7

When I get it done I will get exact real world dimensions measured up on this ship.

That's true -- as I scaled it. But if you wanted to scale it off the door, having that door be equal to Galileo's, then this would be a considerably bigger shuttlecraft. I scaled it the way I did to make it fit on the flight deck.

 

[Warped9]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

Since this wasn't a finalized design then I'd say you have some leeway in terms of detailing. The fact that there were disparities between the three versions of the Galileo as seen onscreen actually helped me solve certain problems in order to realize a complete integrated vehicle.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

I wouldn't add too much detail if I were you. One of the good things about a lot of TOS designs is that they did not go too far with surface detail.

Too much and the design looks simple and low-tech, and at worst case "Close Encounters of the Third Kind"


CuttingEdge100

 

[Warped9]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

I wouldn't add too much detail if I were you. One of the good things about a lot of TOS designs is that they did not go too far with surface detail.

Too much and the design looks simple and low-tech, and at worst case "Close Encounters of the Third Kind"


CuttingEdge100

By detail I don't mean surface detailing but details like the size of a doorway or proportions of various elements.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

I wouldn't add too much detail if I were you. One of the good things about a lot of TOS designs is that they did not go too far with surface detail.

Too much and the design looks simple and low-tech, and at worst case "Close Encounters of the Third Kind"

Agreed, absolutely. Trek philosophy has MOST elements accessible internally, while those accessible only (or additionally) from the exterior are behind hatches or cover plates.

The "exposed nernies" philosophy is a visual cheat to make stuff look "more interesting" but doesn't really hold up logically as far as I'm concerned.

A good rule-of-thumb... nothing should be exposed to the exterior unless you can come up with a reason why it MUST be exposed. Weapon ports, thrust ports, umbilical attachments, windows, certain sensors, windows, hatches... those have a REASON to be visible. But if it's not clearly and unambiguously necessary for it to be exposed, it shouldn't BE exposed.

 

[RedSpar]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

Sorry guys for the delay, I didn't get a chance to work on the shuttle until this weekend.

I pretty have most of the modeling done save the landing gear and a few little details.

Impulse engine, windows and top details installed.

Large: http://www.redspar.com/shuttle/newshuttle1.png

Large: http://www.redspar.com/shuttle/newshuttle2.png

Large: http://www.redspar.com/shuttle/newshuttle3.png

Large: http://www.redspar.com/shuttle/newshuttle4.png

Large: http://www.redspar.com/shuttle/newshuttle5.png

Large: http://www.redspar.com/shuttle/newshuttle6.png

Next up landing gear and texturing.

Do you guys think I need to add a little more detail to the warp engines? I can't decide if they are too simple or not.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

Next up landing gear and texturing.

Ah... I was wondering if you were envisioning it just sitting on those wingtip pads... obviously not a very stable situation!

If it were me, I'd go VERY light on the texturing... at this scale, you don't need much to sell it. It actually looks just about perfect now, barring lack of painted markings and so forth... very much like a brand-spanking new Citation X does. I think MJ would have approved.

Do you guys think I need to add a little more detail to the warp engines? I can't decide if they are too simple or not.

I think that they look fine. My answer to you is simply this... not "is it too simple-looking." I've been arguing on here in other threads recently about how much more desirable it is to keep things simple... the simpler the better... so if you add something, it has to be for a reason besides just "to be cool."

The only details I'd even consider would be equivalents to the various cooling structures on the TOS nacelles (though not necessarily being identical to them in size or structure.

Maybe... and this is just a thought, so take it or leave it obviously... put a pair of "intercoolers" on the nacelles, close-mounted... but not looking much like the TOS-E's ones. Rather, make them look like something you might put on your computer's CPU today... a single "heat pipe" tube, with fins perpendicular to the tube axis, trimmed to some shape (possibly with the "pipe" inside a notched region on the nacelle so that the "shape" is the same as the cross-section of the nacelle itself?).

In case you're not familiar with what a heat-pipe assembly can look like, here's a decent example. Obviously, yours would be shaped differently (much less blocky, much more linear).

http://www.guru3d.com/article/heatpipe-cpu-cooler-roundup-review/5

 

[Maurice]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

This is really cool!

The one thing I can't help but thinking is that the body is too wide. Jeffries sketches clearly show his aviation background, and I'm suspecting his intent was a narrow two-seater type fuselage like a private plane, with the door on the "side" not on the curve from the front.

 

[Santaman]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

Awesome little spacecraft you got there.

 

[Bernard Guignard]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

Very nice work there just have to add a retractable landing skid ala
Std Shuttle craft and it would look great.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

I'm suspecting his intent was a narrow two-seater type fuselage like a private plane, with the door on the "side" not on the curve from the front.

I could go either way on the door, although I do see your point, but I've got a different question about it: How the heck are the crew supposed to get down?!

I can see two possible answers, and their obviously may be more -

1. Move the doors to the lower curve instead of the upper one, so that they swing down to the ground and have stairs in them.

2. Put a slightly graduated surface on the wing, so that they don't slip and bust their butts while trying to walk down that. Might offer an excuse to put a decorative pattern on there, too, not that really it needs one.

just have to add a retractable landing skid ala
Std Shuttle craft and it would look great.

And I'm assuming the skid would go toward the rear, since the engines will weigh a lot more than the passenger compartment?

Awesome design, btw. I'm in the market for new transportation - where can I get one?

 

[RedSpar]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

I could go either way on the door, although I do see your point, but I've got a different question about it: How the heck are the crew supposed to get down?!

I can see two possible answers, and their obviously may be more -

1. Move the doors to the lower curve instead of the upper one, so that they swing down to the ground and have stairs in them.

2. Put a slightly graduated surface on the wing, so that they don't slip and bust their butts while trying to walk down that. Might offer an excuse to put a decorative pattern on there, too, not that really it needs one.

And I'm assuming the skid would go toward the rear, since the engines will weigh a lot more than the passenger compartment?

Awesome design, btw. I'm in the market for new transportation - where can I get one?

She's just $29999 Federation credits... come on down and I can get you into this beauty, ta-daaay! (Klingon attack insurance not included)

Go back and look at the original sketches on page one Triumphant, the door splits and opens up like a clamshell and touches the ground. When I am finished I will animate the door and show it in action.

I may also make a cargo door that drops out of the bottom - if I can make it work.

As for landing gear, there will be a retractable pad on the bottom of each warp pylon and one longer arm that retracts out the rear of the hull.

This is really cool!

The one thing I can't help but thinking is that the body is too wide. Jeffries sketches clearly show his aviation background, and I'm suspecting his intent was a narrow two-seater type fuselage like a private plane, with the door on the "side" not on the curve from the front.

Well I disgree, I have always thought TOS shuttles were way too small to be useful. This size makes more sense in my mind for a useful shuttlecraft.

The door placement is a bit of a problem...If I put it farther back it cuts into the leading edge of the wing too much, farther forward and it cuts into the cockpit. If I change that I will be straying away too far from Jefferies' sketches.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

BTW: This is what I was talking about sort of.

I'm no Franz Joseph but I think I got my point across. Thicker wing, no upward kink on the outboard wing.

I don't see any problem with some dihedral or anhedral added to the wings as necessary.


CuttingEdge100

 

[RedSpar]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

Hmm. Well I knew what you meant by your original post CuttingEdge. I like Jefferies cranked wing design and I want to stick with what he sketched so I won't be changing it. Maybe after I am done I will experiment a bit with the design.. We'll see.

 

[RedSpar]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

Here is a bigger pic of how the door works:

 

[aridas sofia]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

Beautiful. Excellent work.

Do you have the proper font for the name, registry, etc?

 

[RedSpar]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

Wow Aridas, you must have read my mind.. I was going to ask soon if anyone had the calligraphic font used for the name of the shuttle.

If ya got 'em I would be grateful to get 'em from you!

 

[aridas sofia]

Re: Matt Jeffries original shuttle design

Wow Aridas, you must have read my mind.. I was going to ask soon if anyone had the calligraphic font used for the name of the shuttle.

If ya got 'em I would be grateful to get 'em from you!

Do you have Illustrator? I can give you the file with all the graphics for the shuttle -- pennant, name, number and script name. For the script name I reduced the font to a vector object and altered it to get closer to what was on Galileo -- I started with one of the Brush Script fonts, I believe.

If you don't have Illustrator, I can create a jpg file at high resolution for you.