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Mass Effect 3 $$(ENDINGS SPOILERS)$$

You and I are in a rare minority, friend. I finished the game last week and had no problems at all with the ending Bioware gave us. I have no problems calling ME3 the best SP experience I've played this generation even with the ending as it is

I agree ME3 is the best game of this generation and while I don't hate the endings as much as others there is something that does continue to bug me. From what were hearing, this wasn't Bioware's ending but Casey Hudson's who seemingly cut out everyone else and didn't even put the ending through the peer checks the rest of the story went through. I like the idea of an advanced AI creating the Reapers, the cycle designed to allow younger races to mature + keep AI from wiping us out...However bad idea to blow up the relays in the blue ending (most likely canon ending) and Shepard/Starchild convo needed to be expanded upon a lot more.
 
EA voted worst company in America over ME3's ending? Really!?!
No, EA was voted that because they're a shitty company, the fact that it aligned with the controversy over ME3's ending was just icing on the cake. EA created the online pass, they push for day one DLC, they've started to require always-on internet connections for singleplayer games, they've started banning people for modding singleplayer games, they have a track record of acquiring popular studios and running them into the ground, and they try to nickle and dime their customers in whatever way they can get away with. Are they the worst company in the world? No, there are far worse, but that doesn't mean that EA isn't a shitty company as well.

Comparing ME3 to other recent SFF efforts, ME3's ending doesn't even approach the horrifically bad endings of shows like Buffy, Lost or BSG.
While Lost and BSG clearly screwed up their mythology and their finales suffered, both shows ended with closure for the characters and that made the endings acceptable. ME3's ending not only screwed up the mythology, it just ended with no closure, the characters we came to care for are either dead or stranded. That's a bigger storytelling mistake than either of those shows managed to make.
 
I agree ME3 is the best game of this generation

:cardie:

Sigh. Ok, look. It's bad enough that Mass Effect 3 has a bad ending, but I am NOT one of those Mass Effect fans who claim that 95% of perfect and the last 5% is crap and am willing to over look it. No. There is so much I found wrong with ME3 right from the start that I couldn't believe it had degraded this low into the "more product than art" department.

ME3 doesn't do anything new. Nothing. In fact, I would argue that ME3 takes more away from the previous games than it does add to it. For crying out loud, they have modes that make the game a piece of cake to beat, even taking away the most fundamental feature the series established, the dialogue options. And even with that left on, the dialogue interactions are significantly cut down and substituted with out of character dialogue you have no control over. At least in ME1 and 2 I could hit on who I wanted to or just be good pals, in ME3, I can't say anything to anyone without being flirtatious or seeming interested in a relationship, even when I'm already head long into one!

Honestly. If you have to pick a game that has to be like Mass Effect in order to be this generation's best game, go with Dragon Age: Origins. Not only is that game built from the ground up to be at your control, but it also has choices that greatly affect the ending, has great RPG elements, epilogues that cover almost everything you did, no last minute character additions that throw off the plot, an enemy who stays the enemy all the way to the end, and a dialogue system where you get to decide EVERYTHING YOU SAY!

I mean, god. Just look at the battle on Earth and compare it to the battle of Denerim. No matter what you do in Mass Effect 3, the battle on Earth will always be the same. During the battle of Denerim, you can summon up the allies you've actually recruited for the war! Did you pick elves or werewolf's? Mages or templars? Are their armies well managed and equipped? It all makes a difference. Oh, you remember the mage you rescued from the tower? There he is fighting along side you!

ME3 = Best Game of this Generation?...... No.... I just.. No.
 
EA voted worst company in America over ME3's ending? Really!?!
No, EA was voted that because they're a shitty company, the fact that it aligned with the controversy over ME3's ending was just icing on the cake. EA created the online pass, they push for day one DLC, they've started to require always-on internet connections for singleplayer games, they've started banning people for modding singleplayer games, they have a track record of acquiring popular studios and running them into the ground, and they try to nickle and dime their customers in whatever way they can get away with. Are they the worst company in the world? No, there are far worse, but that doesn't mean that EA isn't a shitty company as well.

Compared to the likes of AT&T who are trying to rebuild their monopoly by outright lying to the federal government, Bank of America (and other banks) who actively ruined people's lives by handing out loans like they were candy and nickel and diming customers, and the various cable company monopolies like Comcast and Time Warner, EA's in the bush leagues. I'd argue EA's not even the worst video game company, an honor that solidly belongs to Activision IMO. The fact that EA got voted worst company in America only proves that a bunch of self-entitled nerds were more pissed off about their video games and were too ignorant to consider issues that actually matter like the state of our financial institutions or healthcare.
 
You and I are in a rare minority, friend. I finished the game last week and had no problems at all with the ending Bioware gave us. I have no problems calling ME3 the best SP experience I've played this generation even with the ending as it is
I agree ME3 is the best game of this generation and while I don't hate the endings as much as others there is something that does continue to bug me. From what were hearing, this wasn't Bioware's ending but Casey Hudson's who seemingly cut out everyone else and didn't even put the ending through the peer checks the rest of the story went through. I like the idea of an advanced AI creating the Reapers, the cycle designed to allow younger races to mature + keep AI from wiping us out...However bad idea to blow up the relays in the blue ending (most likely canon ending) and Shepard/Starchild convo needed to be expanded upon a lot more.

As far as I can tell, that theory amounts to little more than rumour and hearsay. Indeed I think the ME writer who's supposed to have come out with this has denied saying any such thing.

Regardless, for me at least, the main fault with the ending is the same fault I see in the rest of the game: execution. I'm sure I'm repeating myself but the more I play the game the more I see it. They had a *lot* of ideas and aspirations for this game that they just didn't have the time for, or were shoved in at the last minute.

Allers is a good example. An embedded Alliance reporter on the Normandy is a great idea with a *lot* of potential, even if she MUST be a love interest. But the execution is *awful*. Nevermind the half-arsed stunt casting, the accompanying bad acting, or the fact that they decided to create a totally new character rather than reuse a perfectly good existing one--*cough*Emily Wong*cough*--the fact remains that the character adds nothing whatsoever to the story. Aside from adding some minor bonus points to the war assets (which are totally meaningless in themselves anyway), she has no impact on the game or Shepard, whether you romance her or not.

They could have had her interviewing other characters onboard the ship or just casually hanging out (boob pun not intended) in the mess hall. The could have actually given her her own subplot and some kind of meaningful character arc like the other LI's, but all she does is stand around the cargo bay and occasionally chat with Traynor...over the intercom. Now we know Bioware is perfectly capable of doing these things

It's not just writing either, but on the nuts and bolts side too. Look at the character animation and how well done certain key scenes are, like the boxing match with Vega, or Liara's romance conversations. Then look at the walking animations and...well, moments like this basically. You can see there's a *huge* variance the the quality of work which to me means that a lot of the game is essentially unfinished.

I can only speculate that at some point there's must have been a triage process (for lack of a better term) where the most effort was put into the "big" scenes and the rest of the game was only brought up to a certain level of acceptability. The over reliance on the Zaeed/Kasumi "poke to talk" conversation are a bit of a give away.

I could go on about the bare bones fetch quests, there only being one "hub world" after having 3 in the previous game or the lazy arse way they "finally" revealed Tali's face, but to get back to my original point; the ending has the same problem as all of the above. They didn't spend the time that was needed to give the game a proper ending and save for a few key bits, it was all done at a rush. Indeed, I'd be willing to bet they specifically designed all of the endings to be 99% the same as a time/money saving measure.

If it really was changed at the 11th hour and without peer review then I'm sure that the reason was because it was done because Hudson and Walters believed it to be the only way to get the game out on time. While it's understandable from a business standpoint, it's a cardinal sin from a creative one. It also means that any defence of the ending based on the claim of "artistic integrity" is inherently bogus.

Of course it's all speculation on my part, so make of it what you will.

EA voted worst company in America over ME3's ending? Really!?!
No, EA was voted that because they're a shitty company, the fact that it aligned with the controversy over ME3's ending was just icing on the cake. EA created the online pass, they push for day one DLC, they've started to require always-on internet connections for singleplayer games, they've started banning people for modding singleplayer games, they have a track record of acquiring popular studios and running them into the ground, and they try to nickle and dime their customers in whatever way they can get away with. Are they the worst company in the world? No, there are far worse, but that doesn't mean that EA isn't a shitty company as well.

Compared to the likes of AT&T who are trying to rebuild their monopoly by outright lying to the federal government, Bank of America (and other banks) who actively ruined people's lives by handing out loans like they were candy and nickel and diming customers, and the various cable company monopolies like Comcast and Time Warner, EA's in the bush leagues. I'd argue EA's not even the worst video game company, an honor that solidly belongs to Activision IMO. The fact that EA got voted worst company in America only proves that a bunch of self-entitled nerds were more pissed off about their video games and were too ignorant to consider issues that actually matter like the state of our financial institutions or healthcare.

Obviously calling EA the worst company in the US (or anywhere else) is a massive overstatement. They're just an entertainment company for goodness sake!

They may treat their customers like brainless bags of shite and have the worst reputation in the video games industry but last time I checked they don't dump toxic waste in water supplies, suppress beneficial technological advancements that threaten short term profits, sell overpriced/unsafe/unnecessary pharmaceuticals to people that can't afford them, ship weapons to oppressive dictatorships or exploit child labour in third world countries...They make video games.

The reality is that the "worst" companies in the world are mostly one's you've never ever heard of...that is until they do something that lands them in the news.
 
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Meh, I still think ME3 is one of the greatest games and the whole Mass Effect saga was fantastic, even with the problems that have been pointed out.
 
Compared to the likes of AT&T who are trying to rebuild their monopoly by outright lying to the federal government, Bank of America (and other banks) who actively ruined people's lives by handing out loans like they were candy and nickel and diming customers, and the various cable company monopolies like Comcast and Time Warner, EA's in the bush leagues.
I agree, but to say that EA only "won" that vote because of the ME3 debacle is exactly the sort of spin that they want to put on it, blame it on whiny gamers and shrug it off. But the truth is that ME3 was just the straw that broke the camel's back, EA have been taking advantage of their studios' fans for a long time and they deserve to be called out on it. Would I have voted them the worst company in America? No, because they're not, but they're still a crappy company and hopefully such a public shaming will lead to some changes towards a more consumer-friendly attitude.
 
First world problems, indeed.
First off, I am so fucking sick of this phrase. It's basically saying "Shut up, your opinions don't matter and you're not allowed to criticize anything." Just because my life is comparatively better than someone who doesn't live in the First World doesn't mean that my complaints aren't valid. It might not be a problem to them, but it is to me.

It's no fucking wonder I think the internet consists of a bunch of whiny, self-entitled bitches.
Personally, people who use the phrase "First world problems" are right near the top of my list.

The actual ending was nowhere near that bad, thankfully.
Yeah, it could have been worse, but it was still bad. Why was the Normandy fleeing the battle? Why did Javik emerge from the Normandy after it crashed despite the fact that he was with me at the run to the beam and should be dead on the ground in London? Why wasn't I able to smack the Star Child and destroy his assertion that synthetics always kill organics when I just made peace between the geth and quarians?! Where were the "wildly divergent conclusions" based on my decisions over 3 games? Instead we got 3 endings and the only difference between them is that someone messed with the colour slider.

It's no surprise to me that the two missions I liked most in the game (Tuchanka and Rannoch) were the ones that brought together so many past decisions and provided some resolution to the events, races, and characters involved. They were well done. The ending was not.

As it is, it was a bullshit ending that offered very little in the way of resolution (I didn't say it had to be happy) to the game and there's only two reasons I can see for it:
1. Bioware's writer(s) couldn't figure out how to end the series properly. This would seem to imply that they are incompetent.
2. EA forced Bioware to make an ending like that so they can pump out more DLC. I think this one is the closest to the truth.

Most of ME3 was very good. The last 15-20 minutes were not.
 
Meh, I still think ME3 is one of the greatest games and the whole Mass Effect saga was fantastic, even with the problems that have been pointed out.

Welcome, my brother in arms! :)

Don't misunderstand, despite my bitching I still *really* enjoyed the game. It's just the more I play it, the more I see where the rough edges are and where things have been left unfinished.

Indeed, I finally found the dialogue text dump from the beta leak and it just confirms what I and many others suspected. Whole sections of the game were dropped, though I think much earlier than you might think.

The most obvious one is of course Aria and retaking Omega, except you're not taking Omega back from Cerberus, you're helping Aria fight off the initial invasion/blockade. So they basically recycled that story for the 'Invasion' comics, left Shepard out of it and threw in some weird looking husks...which were cut content also originally designed for the game.

There was supposed to be a mission with Emily Wong too. Something to do with undercover reporting, Cerberus infiltrating the wards and it's connections with Terra Prime. That would have been nice, no?

Javik's original recruitment mission is in there too, though from what I can discern, while the mission still took place on Eden Prime (not Mars as I'd previously suspected) it gave the impression of being a bit more involved and I think it was supposed to be in a more built up part of the colony. For one thing he was to be already be awake and killing Cerberus troopers when you find him.

...Actually, that just made me spot another plot hole. We know that prothean technology can detect individuals under indoctrination--Vigil on Ilos detected Saren & Vendetta on Thessia detected Kai Leng) how then could Javik's mission have been compromised by indoctrinated agents? I mean sure, in the beginning they could have been betrayed by their own, but after several centuries they knew what they were fighting and *must* have been screening people, no?
 
...Actually, that just made me spot another plot hole. We know that prothean technology can detect individuals under indoctrination--Vigil on Ilos detected Saren & Vendetta on Thessia detected Kai Leng) how then could Javik's mission have been compromised by indoctrinated agents?
I didn't take Javik to Thessia yet, so I don't know about the chronology of him vs. Vendetta. But he went into stasis before the Ilos sanctuary was built - that detection tech may not have been invented until ater.

I mean sure, in the beginning they could have been betrayed by their own, but after several centuries they knew what they were fighting and *must* have been screening people, no?
Know that they're fighting indoctrination, sure. But detection of it? Especially under a constant wartime footing like that, where R&D on that kind of thing is going to take a back seat to new guns? I don't think it's implausible.
 
...Actually, that just made me spot another plot hole. We know that prothean technology can detect individuals under indoctrination--Vigil on Ilos detected Saren & Vendetta on Thessia detected Kai Leng) how then could Javik's mission have been compromised by indoctrinated agents?
I didn't take Javik to Thessia yet, so I don't know about the chronology of him vs. Vendetta. But he went into stasis before the Ilos sanctuary was built - that detection tech may not have been invented until ater.

No, Ilos and the conduit project pre-dated the reaper invasion. Aside from the fact that Vigil says as much, how else did the other mini-relay get on the presidium when the citadel was the very first place to fall? Plus Javik mentions on several occasions that he was born centuries*after* the invasion began. Ergo that technology was around before the reapers even arrived.

Also, it makes no difference in this regard if you bring Javik along to Thessia. You just get a little more insight into the extent to which the protheans involved themselves in the affairs of the ancient asari...which I suppose has some bearing since protheans were there before the reapers arrived too. As it happens, the VI says it was aware of his mission, which only means it was still in contact with other parts of the empire. Not surprising since it had a working beacon.

I mean sure, in the beginning they could have been betrayed by their own, but after several centuries they knew what they were fighting and *must* have been screening people, no?
Know that they're fighting indoctrination, sure. But detection of it? Especially under a constant wartime footing like that, where R&D on that kind of thing is going to take a back seat to new guns? I don't think it's implausible.
As I said, they had the ability right from the offset so R&D isn't even a factor and while yes, they were caught unaware in the initial attack and the empire was shattered, *several centuries* is more than enough time to get your act together in screening refugees. Indeed, everything we learn from Javik shows that the protheans could be utterly ruthless. I can't see them so much as hesitating to annihilate a ship/colony/whole planet full of innocent people if the alternative was to allow even the possibility of letting in an indoctrinated sleeper agent. I can't believe they had the capability to identify indoctrination and didn't use it defensively.
 
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First world problems, indeed.
First off, I am so fucking sick of this phrase. It's basically saying "Shut up, your opinions don't matter and you're not allowed to criticize anything." Just because my life is comparatively better than someone who doesn't live in the First World doesn't mean that my complaints aren't valid. It might not be a problem to them, but it is to me.

Criticizing the ending, explaining its flaws and offering alternate ideas for how the game should have ended is fine.

"Take back Mass Effect", contacting the FCC, filing class-action lawsuits, renting billboards in protest and picketing Bioware OVER A FUCKING VIDEO GAME--those are fucking idiots with First World problems who don't have a sense of perspective.

Why was the Normandy fleeing the battle?

We have no idea how long had passed since Shepard and Anderson woke up on the Citadel. Enough time for things to go completely south and the Normandy having to retreat? I do agree the scene was abrupt in that my squad mate who I thought had perished during the final battle (in my case, Liara) somehow was back on board when it was fleeing, as you noted about Javik.

Why wasn't I able to smack the Star Child and destroy his assertion that synthetics always kill organics when I just made peace between the geth and quarians?!

You'll hear no disagreement from me on this. If it had been present, I would've selected the "STFU, Star Child" dialogue option or pulled a Renegade interruption.

Most of ME3 was very good. The last 15-20 minutes were not.

Again, no disagreement here.

But unlike some others who can't possibly fathom that some of us still thought the game as a whole was utterly fantastic, warts and all, I'm willing to acknowledge the game had its faults. Regardless of said faults, it still entertained the fuck out of me and I consider it an awesome gaming experience. Hard to fathom, I know. I must be some kind of idiot for thinking this.
 
Why did Joker look behind himself when he was trying to outrun the explosion? Does he not realize that he would only be looking at the command center?
 
Yeah, didn't Shepard do the same thing in ME2 at the end of the collector ship mission? It made no literal sense there either. ;)
 
I mean sure, in the beginning they could have been betrayed by their own, but after several centuries they knew what they were fighting and *must* have been screening people, no?

Well they were evacuating people to the stasis pods during the flashback and everything seemed to be hectic with Reapers and Collectors running all over the place, its possible that the Reapers got to some of the evacuees before they made it to the bunker and indoctrinated them and gave them some bombs and given that all hell was breaking lose the Protheans did have time to check everyone before they let them in.
 
Why did Joker look behind himself when he was trying to outrun the explosion? Does he not realize that he would only be looking at the command center?

He was breaking the fourth wall, a la Mr. Roper on Three's Company. :)
 
I mean sure, in the beginning they could have been betrayed by their own, but after several centuries they knew what they were fighting and *must* have been screening people, no?

Well they were evacuating people to the stasis pods during the flashback and everything seemed to be hectic with Reapers and Collectors running all over the place, its possible that the Reapers got to some of the evacuees before they made it to the bunker and indoctrinated them and gave them some bombs and given that all hell was breaking lose the Protheans did have time to check everyone before they let them in.

Cart before the horse. Javik said the attack happened *because* they were betrayed by indoctrinated agents, not the other way around. The whole facility on Eden Prime was supposed to be a well kept secret. Indeed, how else could they ever hope to wait out the reaper invasion in stasis unless they were sure the facility was well hidden?

So like I said. Plot hole.
 
I mean sure, in the beginning they could have been betrayed by their own, but after several centuries they knew what they were fighting and *must* have been screening people, no?

Well they were evacuating people to the stasis pods during the flashback and everything seemed to be hectic with Reapers and Collectors running all over the place, its possible that the Reapers got to some of the evacuees before they made it to the bunker and indoctrinated them and gave them some bombs and given that all hell was breaking lose the Protheans did have time to check everyone before they let them in.
Cart before the horse. Javik said the attack happened *because* they were betrayed by indoctrinated agents, not the other way around. The whole facility on Eden Prime was supposed to be a well kept secret. Indeed, how else could they ever hope to wait out the reaper invasion in stasis unless they were sure the facility was well hidden?

So like I said. Plot hole.
According to the codex, Indoctrination uses infrasound and EM manipulation of the brain, so it's highly likely that there's no easily detectable signs of indoctrination. Hell, Rana Theropis manages to go through two and a half games (IIRC) before being revealed as an indoctrinated agent. So it's possible that there is no way to detect indoctrinated agents, especially if they aren't directly involved in a project.
 
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