Marvel vs. DC Comics

[mswood]

Both companies have things I love/Hate about them.

I generally like the more realistic universe of the Marvel characters, but for the last 20 years they keep pushing the characters power levels to levels closer to DC, utterly destroying one of their greatest strengths that these characters are more grounded.

I hate that Marvel seems to have some great ideas for stories and seem to ignore character to get to the point where their plot needs to be.

ANd since my favorite part of marvel is their characters that pisses me off to no end.

With DC it's touches more my childhood fancy. But they also piss me off.

 

[Admiral2]

Make Mine Marvel!

Every time! All my ultimate favorite comics are Marvel comics. DC can come up with five bajillion super ultimate infinite crises of honey bunches of Earths, and they'd never get me to read them more than Marvel.

 

[Forbin]

...honey bunches of Earths.

Oh, that should be on a T-shirt with the DC logo!

 

[crookeddy]

Why do so many comic book fans have this either/or fixation with DC and Marvel? I find that both companies have a similar ratio of good books vs. bad books. Usually I find that if you like what a writer has done, you stand a good chance of liking their other works no matter the publisher. The same with artists, but they sometimes get paired with a crappy writer that totally takes you out of the story. I'd rather have a good story and mediocre art than a mediocre story and good art.

But saying that, I do prefer DC's editorial direction over Marvel's. I have a real problem with the character of the people in Marvel editorial. They seem to think they are of good character, but their decisions behind their stories indicate they lack true moral fiber. Things like thinking the SHRA is a good and legal thing, when it is actually so far against the Constitution it is laughable to think that. Like thinking Spider-Man making a deal with Marvel's devil trading his marriage and future family for the life of his dying aunt would be a better way of breaking up Peter and MJ than MJ finally deciding she just can't handle being married to a super-hero anymore and divorcing him instead. Like the Chameleon sexually assaulting Peter's female roommate while impersonating Peter, and Peter telling her only to get her from being so clingy to him rather than being the right thing and playing the whole situation off for laughs. That's right, sexual assault played up for laughs. Sorry to any of their fans out there, but in terms of what is morally right and wrong Marvel has lost their way. And it has come from the top down in their editorial offices. If I had any children, I would not allow them to read any current books from Marvel aside from the Marvel Adventures line.

Did the MArvel writers really seem like they agreed with the SHRA? Seems like many writers didn't. You can tell by reading the different civil war stories.

 

[the Dagman]

Why do so many comic book fans have this either/or fixation with DC and Marvel? I find that both companies have a similar ratio of good books vs. bad books. Usually I find that if you like what a writer has done, you stand a good chance of liking their other works no matter the publisher. The same with artists, but they sometimes get paired with a crappy writer that totally takes you out of the story. I'd rather have a good story and mediocre art than a mediocre story and good art.

But saying that, I do prefer DC's editorial direction over Marvel's. I have a real problem with the character of the people in Marvel editorial. They seem to think they are of good character, but their decisions behind their stories indicate they lack true moral fiber. Things like thinking the SHRA is a good and legal thing, when it is actually so far against the Constitution it is laughable to think that. Like thinking Spider-Man making a deal with Marvel's devil trading his marriage and future family for the life of his dying aunt would be a better way of breaking up Peter and MJ than MJ finally deciding she just can't handle being married to a super-hero anymore and divorcing him instead. Like the Chameleon sexually assaulting Peter's female roommate while impersonating Peter, and Peter telling her only to get her from being so clingy to him rather than being the right thing and playing the whole situation off for laughs. That's right, sexual assault played up for laughs. Sorry to any of their fans out there, but in terms of what is morally right and wrong Marvel has lost their way. And it has come from the top down in their editorial offices. If I had any children, I would not allow them to read any current books from Marvel aside from the Marvel Adventures line.

Did the MArvel writers really seem like they agreed with the SHRA? Seems like many writers didn't. You can tell by reading the different civil war stories.

Some of the writers didn't, that is true. JMS in particular. But editorially, they all thought it was a good idea. People like Tom Brevroot and Joe Quesada. And Steve Wacker is the editor responsible for letting a sexual assault be played up for laughs. These people should not be responsible for overseeing these books as they do not know right from wrong themselves. How can you expect morally challenged people to be able to guide the adventures of true heroes? These are comic books, not real life. If you can't expect to find true heroes here, then where? Over at DC, that's where.

 

[Trent Roman]

Good idea for the stories and good idea ethically isn't the same thing, though. I freely admit I'm no expert on this subject, but it seemed like even after the SHRA was 'victorious' in-universe, it was never presented as a moral victory. Anti-registration titles like New Avengers and New Warriors continued to portray heroic resistors, while titles like The Initiative showcased some of the problems with the whole registration affair. And with the Secret Invasion enabled by, and Dark Reign spinning out of, the pro-government victory in the civil war, and with many of the most ardent SHRA supports like Iron Man and Ms. Marvel fugitives from the very system they created, I think the ultimate verdict actually comes down against the SHRA and proves Cap and his people right.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Blamo]

Both DC and Marvel are the main reasons I never got into comics. The characters, the plots, the outfits, the outdatedness, the fights, the inconsistent artwork, taking place in the same universe, all of it puts me off.

 

[Gotham Central]

I'm a DC guy all the way. One of the things that I love about DC is that it really is a complete and expansive universe. The folks at DC just seem to have more of an imagination and more willing to actually USE the comic format to its maximum effect. Any one can do a story about someone fighting crime in New York (it happens every day in the real world). But it takes imagination to make a place like Gotham or Metropolis both feel real while having a unique flavor. In that sense, both Gotham and Metropolis are characters in their own right.

 

[Ayelbourne]

I've been a Marvel reader for quite some time, but recently, I've found myself drifting more and more over to DC.

Guess I can thank Queseda for that. First, he ruined Spider-Man with his OMD-Bullshit, than he drives JMS off of my last other Marvel title Thor.
Not so Secret Invasion didn't help either. I can live just fine without 8 issues of nothing but brawls, thank you very much.

DC, on the other hand has become alot more interesting what with great stuff like Morrisons run on Bats, his Final Crisis and especially now with Blackest Night, which is on it's way up to become one of the best events, I've ever read.

Thanks to BN, I've started to read up on the Green Lantern series.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

I like both personally; they both had some bad stuff, had some good stuff lately. Secret Invasion was good; Final Crisis was crap. Dark Avengers is good for the most part; Blackness Night is great.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Classic Marvel was the gold standard of comic superheroics. Too bad it fell into a coma with the coming of Jem-ass and died about the time of Avengers: Dissassembled.

Joey Q has raped the corpse of the once proud MU with his deconstructionist crap!

 

[CaptainCanada]

I'm a DC guy all the way. One of the things that I love about DC is that it really is a complete and expansive universe. The folks at DC just seem to have more of an imagination and more willing to actually USE the comic format to its maximum effect. Any one can do a story about someone fighting crime in New York (it happens every day in the real world). But it takes imagination to make a place like Gotham or Metropolis both feel real while having a unique flavor. In that sense, both Gotham and Metropolis are characters in their own right.

It started out with every hero having their own fictional city, all of which were pretty generic (basically, every city was a renamed New York). At the start of the Silver Age, putting the heroes in a real-world environment was a fairly radical departure from form (another reason it's a lot less necessary than it is in Marvel is power-levels are generally a lot lower for the crimefighters (as opposed to globetrotters like the Avengers, who are just based in New York)). Metropolis and Gotham have since been developed into their own distinctive atmospheres; it's a bit more hit-and-miss for others (Coast, Central, etc.); James Robinson's Starman spent a lot of time giving Opal City a fairly distinct history.

 

[Forbin]

Yeah, gotta say as a life-long Marvelite (I'm 52!), Joey Q's ideas do nothing but piss me off. Secret Invasion was nothing but lame, and One More Day/Brand New Day/See You Next Wednseday/Whatever the Fuck has made me actually angry. I grew up with Spidey, watched him grow and mature, and was happy as a clam that a superhero got into a genuine, permanant adult relationship. But nooOOOOOOoooooo!

 

[LutherSloan]

I've always preferred Marvel by a wide margin.

The only DC property that I really enjoy is Batman, because unlike the other DC heroes, he actually has a strong rogues' gallery.

 

[crookeddy]

While we can argue that the writers might not have actually thought that the SHRA is a good idea, what they allowed Spider-Man to do was despicable. Sold his baby to the devil? All for a very old aunt, who ASKED him to let her be? I know the new Spider-Man stories are supposedly good now, but I just can't read that crap. Why should I read about Peter Park? I dislike this guy.

Also, about Joey Q... I have never spoken to anyone who likes him. How is he still there? Are TPB sales actually up during his reign or something? Maybe people talk about hating him, and continue to buy books?

 

[LutherSloan]

Why do so many comic book fans have this either/or fixation with DC and Marvel? I find that both companies have a similar ratio of good books vs. bad books. Usually I find that if you like what a writer has done, you stand a good chance of liking their other works no matter the publisher. The same with artists, but they sometimes get paired with a crappy writer that totally takes you out of the story. I'd rather have a good story and mediocre art than a mediocre story and good art.

But saying that, I do prefer DC's editorial direction over Marvel's. I have a real problem with the character of the people in Marvel editorial. They seem to think they are of good character, but their decisions behind their stories indicate they lack true moral fiber. Things like thinking the SHRA is a good and legal thing, when it is actually so far against the Constitution it is laughable to think that. Like thinking Spider-Man making a deal with Marvel's devil trading his marriage and future family for the life of his dying aunt would be a better way of breaking up Peter and MJ than MJ finally deciding she just can't handle being married to a super-hero anymore and divorcing him instead. Like the Chameleon sexually assaulting Peter's female roommate while impersonating Peter, and Peter telling her only to get her from being so clingy to him rather than being the right thing and playing the whole situation off for laughs. That's right, sexual assault played up for laughs. Sorry to any of their fans out there, but in terms of what is morally right and wrong Marvel has lost their way. And it has come from the top down in their editorial offices. If I had any children, I would not allow them to read any current books from Marvel aside from the Marvel Adventures line.

Well, I thought it was pretty clear that the whole Superhero Registration Act thing was a response to the concerns over the Patriot Act. Although I did find it disconcerting that the pro-registration side won in the end, and the SHRA stayed in place (for now).

 

[LutherSloan]

While we can argue that the writers might not have actually thought that the SHRA is a good idea, what they allowed Spider-Man to do was despicable. Sold his baby to the devil? All for a very old aunt, who ASKED him to let her be? I know the new Spider-Man stories are supposedly good now, but I just can't read that crap. Why should I read about Peter Park? I dislike this guy.

Also, about Joey Q... I have never spoken to anyone who likes him. How is he still there? Are TPB sales actually up during his reign or something? Maybe people talk about hating him, and continue to buy books?

Yeah, the OMD thing didn't make much sense. I mean, how much longer would Aunt May live anyway? She's already ancient.

 

[the Dagman]

While we can argue that the writers might not have actually thought that the SHRA is a good idea, what they allowed Spider-Man to do was despicable. Sold his baby to the devil? All for a very old aunt, who ASKED him to let her be? I know the new Spider-Man stories are supposedly good now, but I just can't read that crap. Why should I read about Peter Park? I dislike this guy.

Also, about Joey Q... I have never spoken to anyone who likes him. How is he still there? Are TPB sales actually up during his reign or something? Maybe people talk about hating him, and continue to buy books?

Yeah, the OMD thing didn't make much sense. I mean, how much longer would Aunt May live anyway? She's already ancient.

The Aunt May/marriage trade was just a contrived excuse for what they did to the character of Spider-Man. There were any number of ways she should have been able to be saved. Bullet near the heart... why not have used Tony Stark's original design for his Iron Man chestplate that was designed to keep his heart going in much the same predicament? "Iron May"! Or there was the blood of the Angel that could heal (he brought Paige Guthrie back to life after both she and he had their chests blown wide open, as well as saving several supposedly killed mutants after they were crucified on the front lawn of the X-Mansion). Or there was Elixir whose mutant power was to heal. Through his fellow Avenger Wolverine he could have easily made contact with either of them and had them fix her up even during the "Back In Black" months of the books, let alone during OMD. Hell, he could have asked Dr. Strange, his long time friend and fellow Avenger, to have helped out. You know, the guy who was actually a surgeon and was the Sorceror Supreme? But Joey Q included some bullshit montage saying that none of those people could help. Bullshit. They have fixed far worse injuries in the past. The only reason they could not do so here was because Joey Q said so. A pretty lame way to fill a huge hole in his plot.

But look at the character of Spider-Man. His motto since Amazing Fantasy #15 was "With great power must come great responsibility." Responsibility. That alone should have precluded him from ever taking off his mask at a press conference and revealing his identity to the world. I know he was given the okay to do so by May and MJ. But even though they know who he is, only Peter really knows the kinds of people he fights. And he saw what happened to Daredevil when the Kingpin found out he was Matt Murdock back in the classic Born Again story. The Kingpin tore down and destroyed every facet of Murdock's life. There is NO WAY that Peter would have opened MJ and Aunt May to that kind of danger. No matter their approval. No matter Stark's virtual ultimatum to unmask or lose his new job with him along with his assurances of protection. Peter knew better. He should have known that somewhere down the line his loved ones would be vulnerable and one of his enemies would be there to take advantage of it. He's been Spider-Man for ten years of Marvel time, and when written true to the character and not to touch predetermined plot points, he should have known better.

And look at the deal itself. Why did Mephisto pick that moment to offer Spider-Man a deal? He's an eternal being and time doesn't really matter to him. So why then? If the marriage of Peter and MJ was so valuable to him, why not offer Peter Parker a deal like back when he accidentally broke Gwen Stacy's neck when he was trying to save her from falling off the GW Bridge? At that point in time, Pete would have sold his soul to have saved Gwen. And doing so would have also wiped out a future marriage to MJ to boot. So why just then and for the mere cost of a marriage when he should have been able to get his whole soul?

All three points come down to one thing: editorial hubris. And all by people who really don't get the character and what made him great.

If I was an exec at Disney who gets power over Marvel after the takeover goes through, the first thing I would do is fire Joe Quesada, Tom Brevroot and Steve Wacker. The first two for committing this travesty on Marvel's flagship character, the third for allowing a writer to play up a sexual assault on Peter's female roommate for laughs.

 

[Lookingglassman]

I've always liked DC. When I was growing up I loved War comics and DC had the best ones: GI Combat, SGT Rock, The Losers, Weird War. Marvel's line wasnt very good.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

The Aunt May/marriage trade was just a contrived excuse for what they did to the character of Spider-Man. There were any number of ways she should have been able to be saved. Bullet near the heart... why not have used Tony Stark's original design for his Iron Man chestplate that was designed to keep his heart going in much the same predicament? "Iron May"! Or there was the blood of the Angel that could heal (he brought Paige Guthrie back to life after both she and he had their chests blown wide open, as well as saving several supposedly killed mutants after they were crucified on the front lawn of the X-Mansion). Or there was Elixir whose mutant power was to heal. Through his fellow Avenger Wolverine he could have easily made contact with either of them and had them fix her up even during the "Back In Black" months of the books, let alone during OMD. Hell, he could have asked Dr. Strange, his long time friend and fellow Avenger, to have helped out. You know, the guy who was actually a surgeon and was the Sorceror Supreme? But Joey Q included some bullshit montage saying that none of those people could help. Bullshit. They have fixed far worse injuries in the past. The only reason they could not do so here was because Joey Q said so. A pretty lame way to fill a huge hole in his plot.

But that would involve continuity...and we all know (because Joey keeps saying so) that the only people who care about continuity are 40 year-old basement-dwelling fanboys who think girls are "icky"...

All three points come down to one thing: editorial hubris. And all by people who really don't get the character and what made him great.

Agreed. and add a healthy dollop of mysogyny on Joey's part.

If I was an exec at Disney who gets power over Marvel after the takeover goes through, the first thing I would do is fire Joe Quesada, Tom Brevroot and Steve Wacker. The first two for committing this travesty on Marvel's flagship character, the third for allowing a writer to play up a sexual assault on Peter's female roommate for laughs.

Brevroot was just doing as Joey ordered.