Marvel/Netflix Daredevil Season 1

[Guy Gardener]

It's early Bendis.

There are cross overs with alias that are weird/cool.

Literally the same scenes, with the same dialogue from a skewed perspective.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Just to warn anybody who goes for the Bendis and/or Miller collections, their huge. The Miller one is 320 pages, and the Bendis is 411 pages.

Frankly, that's a good thing in my book.

I'll point out that Miller's 320 pages is far more dense than Bendis's even larger books.

I never read Bendis' run on DD, is it good, or is it too... Bendis-y?

It's good, but it's very Bendis-y. It's a very grounded take on the character that explores the consequences of superhero stuff. It's a nice psychological story focusing on Matt Murdock. And it's a halfway decent street level crime comic book. But it does take six stories to tell what probably could be told in two or three tops.

 

[Saga]

i actually really like the Bendis run of DD. it is decompressed...of course. so reading those giant collections shouldn't take too much time. if i had to read it month to month i'd probably hate it.

 

[JD]

I think I read in some of the interviews that Bendis and Miller were two of the biggest influences for the show? Would you guys agree with that.
I always see references to Bendis's stuff being "decompressed", what exactly do people mean by that?

 

[Turtletrekker]

I think I read in some of the interviews that Bendis and Miller were two of the biggest influences for the show? Would you guys agree with that.
I always see references to Bendis's stuff being "decompressed", what exactly do people mean by that?

It means he takes six issues to tell a story better told in four. I haven't read any Bendis' DD, but I saw a lot of Frank Miller influence in the show.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I think you could see Bendis in the Russian mob, etc. When Frank Miller wrote Kingpin and Gangwar, it was basically just the Godfather. Bendis definitely did that too, but he also tried to incorporate a lot of modern street crime actors into it. I think the tone there is pure Bendis.

 

[Saul]

I liked this show but I think it didn't build on the momentum of the first few episodes. It kinda leveled out and then got into relationships and drama a bit too much.

Wrong way a round.

The first couple episodes were superchargings of sex a violence to make sure the small brained thugs who don't understand subtle stick around for the subtle when it showed up. If you can understand subtle, then you can enjoy the middle and not just be like a puppy scratching at a door wondering where the super charged sex and violence has gone and when it's coming back.

Unfortunately after Rosario Dawson fucked off with her pay check I found there to be little to keep my attention as regards to drama. Foggy discovering Matt was a kick ass superhero and getting emo over it. The two of them stuck in a room wanting to cry while the blonde chick kept calling wasn't enough to take my attention away from the delicate art of toe nail clipping. So I shan't be watch season two of Daredevil. There's too many things I want to watch as it is and unless I'm impressed on a fairly constant basis I will watch something else.

 

[fireproof78]

I liked this show but I think it didn't build on the momentum of the first few episodes. It kinda leveled out and then got into relationships and drama a bit too much.

Wrong way a round.

The first couple episodes were superchargings of sex a violence to make sure the small brained thugs who don't understand subtle stick around for the subtle when it showed up. If you can understand subtle, then you can enjoy the middle and not just be like a puppy scratching at a door wondering where the super charged sex and violence has gone and when it's coming back.

Unfortunately after Rosario Dawson fucked off with her pay check I found there to be little to keep my attention as regards to drama. Foggy discovering Matt was a kick ass superhero and getting emo over it. The two of them stuck in a room wanting to cry while the blonde chick kept calling wasn't enough to take my attention away from the delicate art of toe nail clipping. So I shan't be watch season two of Daredevil. There's too many things I want to watch as it is and unless I'm impressed on a fairly constant basis I will watch something else.

I'm curious-you found nothing engaging regarding Fisk's storyline, the drama about him unveiling his plans or Ben and Paige's research?

I'm not saying the middle didn't drag a bit for me, but there was plenty of character stuff on some level to keep me interested. Also, enough mysteries to keep me coming back.

 

[JD]

Last post about the comics, I noticed that most of the first half of the Miller collection was just drawn by Miller and written by other people.

 

[Christopher]

Spoiler: Wesley/Karen scene

I suppose I can understand Karen being overcome with fear, and not just for herself, since Wesley had just threatened everyone she loved. But technically, legally, she wasn't justified in using lehtal force, because she had the option of retreat. Once she had the gun, she could've just fled. So it wasn't strictly self-defense. I can understand emotionally why it happened, that it was more a panic reaction than a calculated choice, but she went too far, and it's a shame that she crossed that line, a line that even Matt managed to stay on the desired side of.

It also bugs me that they just kind of dropped that thread after the first part of the next episode. I mean, we saw that something was still haunting her, but it didn't really resolve. I suspect the intent is to set up her arc for the next season, which is worrisome, since I gather Karen went to some really dark places in the comic. And they did hint at that by having her and Foggy joke about graduating to the hard stuff.

I'm not sure I entirely agree:

Spoiler: Self-Defense law applied to the facts

New York only requires retreat if the person knows they can retreat with complete personal safety. She knew Wesley had at least one gun. She doesn't know if he has a second gun. She also knew he had a cellphone and the ability to call others. I agree killing him to prevent him from calling others wouldn't be sufficient by itself, even though he knows where she lives, but combined with everything, it's quite possible she doesn't make it safely home when retreating.

I also think it was left hanging because there is no easy resolution. It's the kind of thing that gnaws at you no matter what, which is why Matt hasn't killed anyone.

This came up in a discussion on Tor.com (in the comments to an interesting article on the use of Catholicism in the show), so I decided to do some research, and I found the relevant section of New York Penal Law:

S 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
...
2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
(a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or
about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the
actor may not use deadly physical force if he or she knows that with
complete personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the
necessity of so doing by retreating; except that the actor is under no
duty to retreat if he or she is:
(i) in his or her dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police
officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to
section 35.30; or
(b) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible criminal
sexual act or robbery; or
(c) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that
the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of
section 35.20.

Now, since she was the one who'd been kidnapped, you could say she reasonably believed that the other person was committing a kidnapping; and she didn't know she could escape with complete personal safety. Also, Wesley had just threatened to kill everyone she loved if she didn't stay silent. She was also terrified and traumatized, and it was more an unplanned, visceral response on her part, something anyone that afraid might have done.

So I was unsure of it before, but I suppose that under New York law, her action would probably be considered self-defense.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Esspecially now that Wesley's employer and confidant was outed as the cities number one criminal and psychopath.

 

[Christopher]

^I don't think that would be legally relevant, since Fisk had no knowledge of or involvement in Wesley's abduction of Karen.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

It does, as Wesley's motivation to protect Fisk is a clear motive to keep her silent.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Last post about the comics, I noticed that most of the first half of the Miller collection was just drawn by Miller and written by other people.

Well, the first half of the first book.

Roger McKenzie was the writer for Daredevil and Miller took over penciling duties (with Klaus Janson inking). Unfortunately, he wrote an issue where a child overdoses on PCP and Daredevil battles the Punisher, which the Comics Code wouldn't approve. There's a single issue with a different writer and, finally, Frank Miller takes over. So the second half of that book is written and drawn by Miller. The second and third books are completely by Miller.

[
Now, since she was the one who'd been kidnapped, you could say she reasonably believed that the other person was committing a kidnapping; and she didn't know she could escape with complete personal safety. Also, Wesley had just threatened to kill everyone she loved if she didn't stay silent. She was also terrified and traumatized, and it was more an unplanned, visceral response on her part, something anyone that afraid might have done.

So I was unsure of it before, but I suppose that under New York law, her action would probably be considered self-defense.

Yeah, I think that's correct.

I will say threat of future harm isn't enough so Wesley's future threats aren't enough. But I do think she was justified under the very specific circumstances it happened.

 

[Saul]

Wrong way a round.

The first couple episodes were superchargings of sex a violence to make sure the small brained thugs who don't understand subtle stick around for the subtle when it showed up. If you can understand subtle, then you can enjoy the middle and not just be like a puppy scratching at a door wondering where the super charged sex and violence has gone and when it's coming back.

Unfortunately after Rosario Dawson fucked off with her pay check I found there to be little to keep my attention as regards to drama. Foggy discovering Matt was a kick ass superhero and getting emo over it. The two of them stuck in a room wanting to cry while the blonde chick kept calling wasn't enough to take my attention away from the delicate art of toe nail clipping. So I shan't be watch season two of Daredevil. There's too many things I want to watch as it is and unless I'm impressed on a fairly constant basis I will watch something else.

I'm curious-you found nothing engaging regarding Fisk's storyline, the drama about him unveiling his plans or Ben and Paige's research?

I'm not saying the middle didn't drag a bit for me, but there was plenty of character stuff on some level to keep me interested. Also, enough mysteries to keep me coming back.

I did like his storyline but I think he wasn't enough of a badass and too much of an angry child. He's a bit of a softy at times. I'd rather they save his romance story for the second season and just have him as an unstoppable man in season 1. A kingpin.
Like this
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq8kPo3tyGY[/yt]

 

[Turtletrekker]

Last post about the comics, I noticed that most of the first half of the Miller collection was just drawn by Miller and written by other people.

Well, the first half of the first book.

Roger McKenzie was the writer for Daredevil and Miller took over penciling duties (with Klaus Janson inking). Unfortunately, he wrote an issue where a child overdoses on PCP and Daredevil battles the Punisher, which the Comics Code wouldn't approve. There's a single issue with a different writer and, finally, Frank Miller takes over.

And in his first issue as writer of Daredevil (he had been co-plotter with McKenzie), which was also his first solo writing credit ever, he introduced Elektra, perhaps his most iconic creation.

So the second half of that book is written and drawn by Miller.

Assuming that this is the same edition that I own the print edition of, only the last five issues of Vol. 1 (168-172) are written solely by Miller.

The second and third books are completely by Miller.

Well, written by Miller, anyway. There should also be a GN drawn by Bill Sienkiewicz in Vol.3, and "Born Again" was was drawn by David Mazzucchelli.

Which, JD, if you're really digging into "Daredevil", you must also read "Born Again", perhaps Miller's best writing effort on the character. Was that one of your purchases?

 

[The Old Mixer]

I'm glad that the Kingpin we got wasn't a cartoon character. I found the scenes with him and Vanessa to be very engaging.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I'm glad that the Kingpin we got wasn't a cartoon character. I found the scenes with him and Vanessa to be very engaging.

Which reminds me, who else thinks that when the cops busted Fisk, that they should have also arrested Vanessa? She obviously knew who and what Wilson Fisk was and what he was doing. Shouldn't she at least have been questioned? Isn't there at least enough to suspect collusion? Conspiracy? Anything?

Vanessa on the show is a very different character than Vanessa in the comics. In the comics, Vanessa despised what Wilson did, and at one point, Fisk even gave up the mobs and moved to Europe for her. Of course, she later went off her rocker...

 

[Christopher]

I did like his storyline but I think he wasn't enough of a badass and too much of an angry child. He's a bit of a softy at times. I'd rather they save his romance story for the second season and just have him as an unstoppable man in season 1. A kingpin.

It was much more impressive and unexpected the way they did it. First, we get to know him as a debonair, shy, vulnerable, very human character, so when he finally does reveal just how brutal and savage he is, it's so much more potent and shocking. Contrast is good. Avoiding the obvious is good.

And really, the "unstoppable man" in season 1 was Matt. His whole deal was that "Murdocks always get back up." He started out as a relentless vigilante and force of vengeance, and gradually decided to commit to a more heroic identity. Whereas Fisk started out believing himself to be a hero, yet ultimately was forced to recognize that he was the villain, the "ill intent" who beset the traveller in the tale of the Good Samaritan. That parallelism between the two characters was the season's strength, along with the decision to present them in unexpected ways. It would've been ruined if they'd both started out as relentlessly aggressive -- or if they'd both started out in exactly the same places they ended up.

 

[Captain Craig]

I have just finished S1 of Daredevil and will scan/spot read the thread later but must add what I'm sure is praise, except FSM, within these posts for Daredevil season 1.

My two initial comments are at the shock of killing Ben and Wesley!! Two characters that are highly important...especially Ben!!! Oh the threads his character could've weaved between the shows. Popping up in AoS even. He could've gone to his rightful home, the Bugle. Not now.