Marvel Comic's sliding timeline & its problems

[Trent Roman]

There was an issue a year or two back that juxtaposed Tony's Viêt Nam and Afghanistan origin stories, calling the apparent contradiction memory corruption from when he was deleting his brain (to prevent the information contained therein from falling into the wrong hands).

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Professor Zoom]

And let's not forget Warren Ellis' Iron Man: Extremis, another major reworking of a major character's origin that is now treated as the definitive, canonical origin, I believe.

Until the next definitive, canonical origin story....

 

[EJA]

There was an issue a year or two back that juxtaposed Tony's Viêt Nam and Afghanistan origin stories, calling the apparent contradiction memory corruption from when he was deleting his brain (to prevent the information contained therein from falling into the wrong hands).

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

So which origin story is the "true" version, Vietnam or Afghanistan?

 

[JoeZhang]

The most recent version seen in Iron Man 500.1 seems to merge aspects both of them - it's clearly the middle east and there are a lot of Jihadists there *but* the main badguy from the original version (I forgot his name) is also there.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ This is correct.

 

[EJA]

Oh well, it still proves my point, that older stories can easily be rewritten to comform easier with the current status quo.

 

[Admiral_Young]

That was your point? Retconning happens all the time. Most fans are aware of this. Some like some of the changes, some don't.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Oh well, it still proves my point, that older stories can easily be rewritten to comform easier with the current status quo.

I thought your point was characters should age, that means NOT rewriting stories, specifically origin stories, as they set a specific date from which to age from.

If you're ok with rewriting origin stories, why are you not ok with characters not aging?

 

[JoeZhang]

That was your point? Retconning happens all the time. Most fans are aware of this. Some like some of the changes, some don't.

And some changes just never get mentioned again - A few years ago, Jim Starlin did a Hawkman special that revealed that all of Hawkman's memories were false and he was never an Egyptian prince, it was all a lie. This was never mentioned again and writers like Johns went out of their way to mention that he WAS an Egyptian prince.

 

[Skellington]

^ Wasn't Hawkman's origin famously tangled, though? Starlin was probably trying to make sense of nonsense.

 

[Stevil2001]

Starlin's story itself is nonsense. It's included in one of the Rann-Thanagar Holy War trades, and I didn't understand half of it. And I know a lot about DC.

Nice art, though. I always like Starlin's pencils.

 

[Professor Zoom]

^ Wasn't Hawkman's origin famously tangled, though? Starlin was probably trying to make sense of nonsense.

Oh, man, was it.

Seriously, it was weird. In part, DC kinda screwed it up after they decided to continue Truman's Hawkward mini, which was great, into "present" continuity, so, then, they suddenly had to explain who was the Silver Age Hawkman, since Kator Hol was NOW coming to Earth for the first time...

I just sorta ignored the problems and enjoyed things as they went a long... but, yeah, it was all twisted. I won't even go into the Hawk god crap. just a bad idea.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Hawkman has like five different origins or something like that? On par with Power Girl.

 

[JoeZhang]

^ Wasn't Hawkman's origin famously tangled, though? Starlin was probably trying to make sense of nonsense.

This is later than that, *after* Geoff Johns spend a lot of time untangling the mess. Starlin did his "everything you know is wrong" story, and then in the following months, Johns writes a series of stories reaffirming his version and on-panel Hawkman is literally removed from Starlin's story.

 

[stueyross]

Fixing Starlins fuckup was one of the best things Geoff has ever done. Seriously, we finally get to the point where Hawkman has a coherent background and a wonderful romantic sweep to it, and in comes Starlin and takes a gigantic shit on it from a great height.

Starlin ought to be taken out back and made to suck Rob Liefelds cock for that abomination.

 

[JoeZhang]

Fixing Starlins fuckup was one of the best things Geoff has ever done. Seriously, we finally get to the point where Hawkman has a coherent background and a wonderful romantic sweep to it, and in comes Starlin and takes a gigantic shit on it from a great height.

Starlin ought to be taken out back and made to suck Rob Liefelds cock for that abomination.

Do Starlin even finish whatever rambling story he was doing?

 

[EJA]

Oh well, it still proves my point, that older stories can easily be rewritten to comform easier with the current status quo.

I thought your point was characters should age, that means NOT rewriting stories, specifically origin stories, as they set a specific date from which to age from.

If a comic doesn't want a long-established character to age, their origin stories should be reworked so that they start off a lot closer to the present. Or, in the case of characters such as Dum-Dum Dugan, who have close ties to WW2, they should already have recieved their anti-ageing treatments a long time before the "beginning" of the age of heroes, not after the point where the sliding timeline started, because the date would end up being so long after their birth that they'd already be dead. Alternatively, they could have characters ageing normally, but I guess that won't be happening any time soon....

 

[Stevil2001]

Fixing Starlins fuckup was one of the best things Geoff has ever done. Seriously, we finally get to the point where Hawkman has a coherent background and a wonderful romantic sweep to it, and in comes Starlin and takes a gigantic shit on it from a great height.

Starlin ought to be taken out back and made to suck Rob Liefelds cock for that abomination.

Do Starlin even finish whatever rambling story he was doing?

Sort of. Rann-Thanagar Holy War had an ending, but only to the immediate story, not the epic of ::yawn:: Synnar.

 

[Admiral_Young]

EJA you seem fixated on minor secondary characters within certain universes when you attempt to make your points. I think we've established that origin stories are revamped and modernized to reflect present time status. No offense but you obsess over this stuff way too much.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Oh well, it still proves my point, that older stories can easily be rewritten to comform easier with the current status quo.

I thought your point was characters should age, that means NOT rewriting stories, specifically origin stories, as they set a specific date from which to age from.

If a comic doesn't want a long-established character to age, their origin stories should be reworked so that they start off a lot closer to the present. Or, in the case of characters such as Dum-Dum Dugan, who have close ties to WW2, they should already have recieved their anti-ageing treatments a long time before the "beginning" of the age of heroes, not after the point where the sliding timeline started, because the date would end up being so long after their birth that they'd already be dead. Alternatively, they could have characters ageing normally, but I guess that won't be happening any time soon....

Uh thats pretty much what they've done, or haven't you been paying attention? The sliding scale has been in place since comics started in the late 30s/early 40s. (Robin was the same age for 30 years) They just didnt have a name for it back then.

Aging "normally" isn't really an option for trade marked, licensed corporate owned characters. Its also a bit "selfish" to tie those chacters down and deny them from future generations.

Dum Dum, while a fun character, is pretty minor. Not really worth getting worked up about, IMO. Just pretend what you want. ( he's a look a like son, he's immortal, he took a potion) and enjoy the story.