Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[TREK_GOD_1]

Link https://variety.com/2024/film/news/fantastic-four-cast-marvel-studios-1235875766/

Interesting...

Wow, the leakers got it right for once. And frankly I was expecting a longer delay than that.

That art looks very 1960s, so maybe the rumours of this being a period piece could be true.

Here's the aforementioned art that Rich was referring to (but didn't bother linking to):

View attachment 38604

Definitely has a 60s retro feel to it. Loving that choice!

One would hope The Fantastic Four--not only being the starting point of Marvel's Silver Age of superhero comics (the oft-referred to "First Family" of Marvel), but are set in a period where Reed's inventions were so far above the world of the 60s, that it had the feel and look of far future tech, making the FF seem to be dangerous (to 1960s laypeople), more than the usual sluggers in tights (among their more earthy character traits).

So the magazine that Ben is reading is a copy of Life with Lyndon B Johnson on the cover from December 1963.

Good catch, Rich! I'd guess that was not a random selection of magazine publishing era.

 

[Rich Watson]

I knew I'd seen the way MARVEL is written in the logo before.

I give you the Cinerama Dome which opened in, say it with me, 1963.

 

[1987SpaceGuy]

I like Pedro and Vanessain other roles, don't feel them for Reed and Sue yet, but that could change.

I'd love for this to be a real 60s space, retro-futurism, jetsony-adventure with them somehow ending up in present day - similiar to Steve Rogers / Captain America the First Avenger.

 

[JD]

That's a great cast, and the poster is pretty cool. I do like the idea of this being set in the '60s, the FF would be perfect for a retrofuturistic kind of thing.

 

[Christopher]

I do like the idea of this being set in the '60s, the FF would be perfect for a retrofuturistic kind of thing.

I don't understand why, any more than I get the desire to keep putting Spider-Man back in high school in modern adaptations. It's not like the FF is a series that existed only in the sixties; it's been in constant publication ever since and has updated with the times. The sixties are only a small part of the series's overall history. So I see no reason to associate them specifically with their beginnings. Especially since both feature-film attempts to focus on their origins have been weak, since their origin is the least interesting thing about them.

To me, what defines the FF is that they're on the cutting edge of progress and discovery. They are to the comics what Tony Stark was to the MCU. I don't see how they work as a period piece. If they lived in the '60s, I don't see how you fit their adventures of great invention and discovery into the history of an MCU that didn't gain public knowledge of alien life until 2012. It would all have to be secret, and that doesn't fit the spirit of the FF, since part of what's defined them from the beginning is that they're highly public figures.

And if they come forward from the '60s into the 2020s, it robs them of their defining trait of being on the cutting edge. Even the most brilliant person on Earth, which Reed Richards arguably is, would be pretty much useless as a scientist/inventor if his knowledge were 60 years out of date. Okay, maybe they're from an alternate Earth in the multiverse where technology was more advanced in the '60s, but there'd still have to be a learning curve if they came into Earth-616.

So I can't imagine a more inappropriate and self-defeating way of integrating the FF into the MCU than putting them in the sixties. If it were a standalone continuity, maybe it could work, though I don't see the appeal. But putting them into the MCU proper that way would require stripping away many of their most defining traits.

 

[Rich Watson]

For someone who claims to be a writer you seem to have a very limited imagination.

 

[UssGlenn]

Well, I'm incredibly excited at the prospect of it being a period piece.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So the magazine that Ben is reading is a copy of Life with Lyndon B Johnson on the cover from December 1963.

Or if you believe poorly sourced articles on places like CBR, it's Time Magazine.
The portrait of Ben looks to be Apollo , but the Life cover is from 1963.

 

[Booji]

I am also looking forward to seeing this as a period piece. The complaints I'm seeing are something any competent writer can overcome.

 

[Turtletrekker]

While I do find Christopher's opinion valid here, I have to join the chorus saying that they would love to see a period piece. I've been in love with the idea ever since I heard Peyton Reed's pitch for the Fantastic Four movie that eventually went to Tim Story. Of course, his pitch had the team being akin to The Beatles with a touch of public "Fantastic Four mania" attached, and that was the part that appealed to me.

The 60s are a blank slate as far as MCU history is concerned and it would be nice to get a look at that era. And just because the movie starts in the '60s doesn't mean that's where it has to end. I recall in Iron Man 2, the recording of Howard Stark saying that he was limited by the technology of his time. I can see Reed Richards in the 60s feeling similar frustrations and then the team winds up in the present day somehow, and Reed gets a look at the technology that exists in MCU 2024 and says, "now this is more like it".

My main issue with that scenario is that the MCU has already had two heroes from the past to turn up in the present, Captain America and Captain Marvel. It's a trope that can begin to be repetitive.

 

[JD]

I don't understand why, any more than I get the desire to keep putting Spider-Man back in high school in modern adaptations. It's not like the FF is a series that existed only in the sixties; it's been in constant publication ever since and has updated with the times. The sixties are only a small part of the series's overall history. So I see no reason to associate them specifically with their beginnings. Especially since both feature-film attempts to focus on their origins have been weak, since their origin is the least interesting thing about them.

To me, what defines the FF is that they're on the cutting edge of progress and discovery. They are to the comics what Tony Stark was to the MCU. I don't see how they work as a period piece. If they lived in the '60s, I don't see how you fit their adventures of great invention and discovery into the history of an MCU that didn't gain public knowledge of alien life until 2012. It would all have to be secret, and that doesn't fit the spirit of the FF, since part of what's defined them from the beginning is that they're highly public figures.

And if they come forward from the '60s into the 2020s, it robs them of their defining trait of being on the cutting edge. Even the most brilliant person on Earth, which Reed Richards arguably is, would be pretty much useless as a scientist/inventor if his knowledge were 60 years out of date. Okay, maybe they're from an alternate Earth in the multiverse where technology was more advanced in the '60s, but there'd still have to be a learning curve if they came into Earth-616.

So I can't imagine a more inappropriate and self-defeating way of integrating the FF into the MCU than putting them in the sixties. If it were a standalone continuity, maybe it could work, though I don't see the appeal. But putting them into the MCU proper that way would require stripping away many of their most defining traits.

To be clear, I like the idea, but I'm not super attached it, I would have no problem with it being set in the modern day.
I guess what appeals to me about a '60s setting, is that I tend to think of that as an era really know for big science advances and exploration, things like the Space Race, and so the FF, who are known for that kind of thing, just seem like a good fit for that era.
And we already have plenty of modern day scientists in the MCU, with Tony Stark (RIP), Hank Pym, Shuri, and now Riri Williams, so setting the FF in the '60s would also be a nice way to make Reed RIchards stand out from them.

 

[Christopher]

While I do find Christopher's opinion valid here, I have to join the chorus saying that they would love to see a period piece.

I'm not against a period piece in principle -- the MCU's done some good ones like Captain America, Agent Carter, and Captain Marvel -- but I just don't see what there is about the FF in particular that makes people want to associate them with the '60s. Yeah, they began in the '60s, but so did Spider-Man, Iron Man, Thor, the Hulk, Daredevil, the X-Men, Black Panther, Ant-Man & the Wasp, Nick Fury, Dr. Strange, Black Widow, Hawkeye, etc. And of all of them, the FF are the ones most associated with being futuristic and on the vanguard of progress. So where does this desire to see them as retro characters come from? Is it because The Incredibles was a riff on the FF and was set in the '60s? Or am I inverting the cause and effect there?

The 60s are a blank slate as far as MCU history is concerned and it would be nice to get a look at that era. And just because the movie starts in the '60s doesn't mean that's where it has to end. I recall in Iron Man 2, the recording of Howard Stark saying that he was limited by the technology of his time. I can see Reed Richards in the 60s feeling similar frustrations and then the team winds up in the present day somehow, and Reed gets a look at the technology that exists in MCU 2024 and says, "now this is more like it".

I just don't find that credible. It would take him decades of study just to catch up with the advances in theory and discovery. A lot of his assumptions would probably be too ingrained to unlearn. Granted, the movie could just ignore plausibility and say he was enough of a supergenius to catch up, but that wouldn't pass the smell test for me. Even a genius is a product of their time.

And we already have plenty of modern day scientists in the MCU, with Tony Stark (RIP), Hank Pym, Shuri, and now Riri Williams, so setting the FF in the '60s would also be a nice way to make Reed RIchards stand out from them.

But Tony is gone, and the character who was being set up as his heir apparent, T'Challa, is also gone, leaving a void. As I said, Tony's role in the MCU was basically the FF's role in the comics, so I could see them filling that void. It's not just about scientific smarts, it's about the level of fame, respectability, and cultural influence. The FF are an institution in the comics, the way Stark Industries is in the MCU.

 

[Samurai8472]

I knew I'd seen the way MARVEL is written in the logo before.

I give you the Cinerama Dome which opened in, say it with me, 1963.

Quentin Tarantino must be huffing into paper bag right now

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[Turtletrekker]

I just don't find that credible. It would take him decades of study just to catch up with the advances in theory and discovery. A lot of his assumptions would probably be too ingrained to unlearn. Granted, the movie could just ignore plausibility and say he was enough of a supergenius to catch up, but that wouldn't pass the smell test for me. Even a genius is a product of their time.

.

RE: "credibility"...

From Avengers...

Maria Hill: "When did you become an expert in thermonuclear astrophysics?"

Stark: "Last night."

 

[Christopher]

RE: "credibility"...

From Avengers...

Maria Hill: " when did you become an expert in thermonuclear astrophysics?"

Stark: "Last night."

But he's a contemporary of the field, and he has the necessary grounding to build on. All science is interconnected. New ideas and inventions are developed when a critical mass of prior knowledge has accumulated to allow them. I can buy a genius from 2012 learning a field of study from 2012 overnight more easily than I can believe a genius from the 1960s learning everything about the subsequent 60 years of progress in a short enough time to catch up with present-day geniuses. I mean, as mentioned, there are plenty of other active geniuses like Shuri and Banner still out there, and Reed would be six decades behind them. I can't see him ever becoming their equal or surpassing them when they have that much of a headstart.

To compound the problem, Tony only had to add to his existing body of knowledge, while a 1960s Reed would have to unlearn a lot of his outdated theoretical assumptions and habits of thought.

 

[The Knappos]

Is the desire to see F4 as a period piece a meta connection to the F4 coming ‘first’ in terms of the Marvel Age of comics? “Marvel’s First Family” as the old label goes.
It’s ‘ok’ for Captain America to pre-date them because he was grandfathered in to Marvel via his Timely run.

But the only way for them to keep their ‘first’ placing is a period piece set before anyone else (but after Captain America)?

Also, Marvel’s period pieces, Captians American and Marvel have been pretty successful.

I don’t think it’s necessarily necessary, myself. Though it would be cool if their film were to show them as already established and skip the origin. Though that could be odd, given their normally celebrity darling status. You’d have the same question as Eternals, a la “Where were you when Thanos etc”

 

[Mr. Adventure]

if you establish the F4 (and Doom?) as contemporaries then their absence and lack of contributions for the last 25 years or so is conspicuous. Starting with the F4 in another time period and assumedly moving them forward by some event does help to provide an explanation for that.

I think part of the association with the 60s is the trappings of the Fantastic Four. Their very name sounds like something from the 60s but also the association with space travel and exploration. Stuff like the Fantasticar and weird science though I guess the cold war dictator might be back in fashion at the moment.

I don't think its the only way to go but I can see why they would choose to go down that path.

 

[Saul]

Who's to say this is in the same timeline as Captain America and Marvel? We're now in the multiverse arc. Maybe they will get dragged into the main MCU timeline due to things happening with Kang. They can have their cake and eat it too.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Is the desire to see F4 as a period piece a meta connection to the F4 coming ‘first’ in terms of the Marvel Age of comics? “Marvel’s First Family” as the old label goes.
It’s ‘ok’ for Captain America to pre-date them because he was grandfathered in to Marvel via his Timely run.

But the only way for them to keep their ‘first’ placing is a period piece set before anyone else (but after Captain America)?

Also, Marvel’s period pieces, Captians American and Marvel have been pretty successful.

I don’t think it’s necessarily necessary, myself. Though it would be cool if their film were to show them as already established and skip the origin. Though that could be odd, given their normally celebrity darling status. You’d have the same question as Eternals, a la “Where were you when Thanos etc”

I don't think it makes much sense trying to draw a line between Timely/Atlas and Marvel that way. They still kept vast swaths of that Timely/Atlas world around even after they became Marvel. And while FF may have been the first new book to take off, a lot of the other 'Marvel' era characters originally debuted in books that straddled the divide between Atlas and Marvel, like Strange Tales.

Personally, I think people just associate the FF with 60s retrofuturism and I don't think that's strange at all considering classic FF elements like HERBIE or the Fantasticar which are definitely very Jetsonian and which the comics certainly didn't drop as soon as the 60s were over.

I think keeping that retrofuturistic aesthetic is a good choice for a new FF movie - especially since it will help differentiate this one from the other FF movies, which is something that needs to happen very emphatically given how terrible they were. But I hope it isn't a period piece. Bringing people forward from the past is too weird of a thing to keep using as an origin story over and over again. Plus it would take away from the 'man out of time' element of Captain America which helped make him unique and it would force a similar element onto all four of the FF, which I think could work ok for Reed and maybe Sue but definitely not Johnny. And forcing that onto Ben Grimm would be like kicking a puppy. He's already the most isolated, self-denegrating hero in Marvel comics. He doesn't need to also be a literal relic from an outdated era.

 

[Rich Watson]

You can't be Marvel's First Family if you only turn up after all the other characters.

Plus, as noted, even if he wasn't a superhero yet you can be sure Reed would have been called in to help multiple times by now if he was around in the present.