There's next to no foreshadowing of Finn being Force sensitive in TFA. In fact, Abrams and Company went out of their way to constantly place Finn in situations where the idea of his being Force sensitive was deliberately undermined, as seen in the scene when he's handed the lightsaber to fight the troopers, and the non-duel with Ren, where his utter lack of even a hint of Force ability was glaring when contrasted to someone who never used the Force in any conscious way (Rey).
Knowing he was nothing more than a racial token / stereotype / ex-janitor set him up to be shoved off to a hollow, forgettable sub-plot in TLJ just to keep him around. No development whatsoever, taking a back seat to nearly all characters in the film, hence Boyega's statement:
"You knew what to do with these other people, but when it came to Kelly Marie Tran, when it came to John Boyega, you know f**k all.".
As anyone would expect.
Agreed; all that was set up in BvS which the Wonder Woman character was built on paid off in the 1st solo film, which did not come as a surprise, considering Snyder was one of the co-writers / producers of the film, so there would be consistency in her character and origin of her BvS beliefs / motivations as part of the building of the then-growing DCEU.
You also forget that Geoff Johns has also involved, whom director Patty Jenkins strongly credited even if the studio didn't.
But i will most certainly give Snyder credit for casting Gadot, and giving the creative scenario of WW1 , among other things. Her theme song is amazing, and ought to be carried over. You should have heard the roar in my theater when it played and she showed up in B v. S
I know that Disney owns both Star Wars and Marvel, but i think the
creative management of both is
very different. See below for the thoughts on the Star Wars movies, but for Marvel...when they got rid of Ike Perlmutter, it really opened up to give us
great works (as i think you agree) like Black Panther and Falcon & the Winter Soldier, and the upcoming Captain America 4, which i have confidence will be in line with these previous works
See below for comments on Finn
Like I said, Finn was never meant to be more than a plot device to get Rey into the story. He was never going to be written or treated like a major character on par with Rey or Ren because he was never considered such from his character inception. Boyega overstated his importance
My recollection of the lead-up to the premiere was that Finn , like Poe and Rey, would be the next generation heroic trio, like Han, Luke and Leia.
The problem, to me, is that they
never had a trilogy actually planned out, creatively. I mean, the beancounters did, because they were (rightly) anticipating a cash cow.
They set up a
hugely anticipated premiere...but clearly didn't have a plan afterwards. The Last Jedi went one way, then after the criticism there (including a quick death of Snoke), snapped back to a retread of the Emperor and yet another Death-Starrish situation.
They focused a lot on Ren and Rey but totally missed Poe and Finn... i mean,
maybe they had an arc for Ren & Rey (not convinced Ren was always meant for redemption... certainly not a romance with Rey).
It was a lot of spectacle and hype that brought a Star Wars renaisance... but the films themselves seem a mess
For, it's basically the fact that we have topics to discuss DC, Star Wars and what not. A little sidetrack is one thing, but this topic often goes way off track. Everytime I see a new post, I think 'oeh, something new about the MCU?'. But nope, more DC talk.
If it's any comfort, we talk about the MCU all the time in the DCFU thread.
It all comes down to Captain America for me - if that bombs like The Marvels then it is hard to see what they do.
Then i guess us fans need to be there and bring our friends on opening weekend.
Also, people are quick to ignore the negative impact the strikes has on promoting The Marvels, because they'd rather push the narrative that it failed because it was female-led or "woke." The problem with arguing from statistics is that they're meaningless unless placed in the proper context, so the raw numbers can be twisted to support anyone's pre-existing agenda. Which is what's meant by "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."
I totally agree about the strike, and i we have mentioned, maybe several times, how Iman
not hitting the media trail was a huge strike against positive PR. But as you have mentioned, there are
multiple factors on the failure. Without a doubt , some people decided not too because of perceived "wokeness". But then "progressive" people then
magnify that atittude by re-posting how this one person is saying that it is too woke, or saying "a group" of people...again
magnifying their actually presence
What we know is that the audience for The Marvels seemed to consist mainly of older male hard-core male fans. General audiences were not interested and younger viewers were not interested.
So does that mean that younger viewers aren't actually interested in the MCU (which is 16 years old at this point) or they weren't interested in this?
At this point we just don't know.
I know of some who are like Iman, and grew up with it and are fans....but i don't think they are as united as they"ought" to be
Guys who are so male you gotta mention it twice.
Technically DC does have a MCU...
I guess he is talking about "menly men"
And DC had a DCFU and now it is coming up with a DCOU
I agree that the whole slate was rushed -- the first Superman movie deconstructed the mythos that hadn't even been constructed yet, and the second Superman movie killed its hero. But I've never been convinced by the argument that you can't make a team movie work without individual movies first. Look at X-Men, the movie that started the modern superhero boom. Look at The Incredibles or Mystery Men or Buckaroo Banzai. Look at the entire Power Rangers franchise and the Super Sentai franchise it spun off from. Beyond superheroes, look at Seven Samurai/The Magnificent Seven or Ocean's Eleven or the Fast and Furious franchise.
I've always found it misguided to argue that just because Marvel did something a certain way, that means DC should be obligated to do exactly the same. Wouldn't it make more sense to embrace doing it differently, to offer a contrast rather than an imitation? I can see the value of starting with a team film to introduce the characters and the world and then spinning off solo films. I see no reason in principle why it couldn't work. A single unsuccessful attempt doesn't mean it can never be done.
I actually have to agree with Christopher on this. There's "proof" DC could have done it this way.
As much as
@TREK_GOD_1 focuses on the extreme Snyder haters... some of us critics actually think Snyder had
a lot of great stuff, but it was sabotaged by a bad start with Superman (and again,
elements within the movie that sabotaged a lot of great stuff, like casting). I am not sure when the cast was fully formed in his mind, but what he had for Justice League was a solid start. I mean, shoot, even Batman vs. Superman
could have been a good beginning too (minus the death of Superman... which is super-meaningless in a first or even second movie, when we all knew he was returning)
They thought black people couldn't be cloned? That's weird...
Especially when They Cloned Tyrone
