Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[The Nth Doctor]

On a different note, some MCU production news...

Deadline reports that Anji White has joined the cast of Ironheart as Riri's mother. I loved her performance in Fargo's fourth season where she also played a mother of a young Black woman central to the story.

Meanwhile, Secret Invasion director Ali Selim told Games Radar is hopes for a potential second season:

"And as Marvel does so excellently, you also feel like 'Oh, it could go in this direction.' Nick Fury is alive and continues to battle, I don’t think that’s a spoiler alert. And there are some characters that are no longer with us and some characters that live to see another challenge. I would love to see that challenge become season two."​

 

[Dee1891]

The fact that this keeps happening, that so many reportedly abusive actors have gotten these major starring roles (not to mention directors like Whedon), implies that there's a deeper problem with the industry's culture, a willingness on the part of executives to tolerate or indulge that kind of behavior, because many of them are probably guilty of it themselves.

This kind of behavior is prominent in many professions and industries. One doesn't have to focus mainly on the entertainment industry.

You mean in the case where there's video and other physical evidence of his abusive behavior and used his fame and fortune on a horrific smear campaign against the victim? That's the guy who you want to stand behind?

The smear campaign? You mean the evidence against Amber Heard for similar charges? Then again, I keep forgetting that our society is incapable of believing a woman is capable of abuse, unless her victim was a child or if she is a fictional character.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The thing were he was found guilty in British courts of bring a wife beater because the Judge actually did his job and didn't allow attempts by the defence to smear the victim?

Yes, that's the guy...but some might give him the benefit of the doubt because of the franchise he's tied to.

 

[Tuskin38]

Do we have a secret invasion thread?

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Turtletrekker]

Damn, those are some awful accusations. Not just the sexual assault (which is horrible enough) but also that an anti-racism organization that he's a member of used their platform against her in order to protect him.

Mind you, there's a language barrier here and I don't trust Twitter to properly translate her tweets (I don't know about how the Direct translated them). Either way, this is better reporting than some of the early reporting I saw from sites I hadn't heard of and I at least trust the Direct to report something like this accurately.

Yeah, The Direct was the most reliable source reporting it at the time.

Some of the bigger sites, such as The Hollywood Reporter and Variety, are now reporting that he denies the allegations, which he probably would whether he had done it or not. Let's see what the future brings. At this point, after the losses of Chadwick Boseman and William Hurt, and the alleged sexual misconduct of Jonathan Majors and Tenoch Huerta, it seems amazing that phases one two and three went off with a few hitches as they did.

As for Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, I am of the belief that that was an absolutely toxic mutually abusive relationship all the way around. Nobody is innocent in that particular case, despite what a jury might decide. The best that can really be said of that trial is that his lawyers presented a much better case than hers did.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

This kind of behavior is prominent in many professions and industries. One doesn't have to focus mainly on the entertainment industry.

Certainly true...but that shouldn't take away from the fact that the entertainment industry desperately needs to do major changes from within to address the fundamental issues that Christopher talked about.

The smear campaign? You mean the evidence against Amber Heard for similar charges? Then again, I keep forgetting that our society is incapable of believing a woman is capable of abuse, unless her victim was a child or if she is a fictional character.

Even if that were true (I hate the media circuses surrounding such trial cases so I didn't follow it closely), that doesn't take away from the abuse that Johnny Depp himself did.

Yes, that's the guy...but some might give him the benefit of the doubt because of the franchise he's tied to.

No.

Let me say it again.

No

Whatever franchise he's a part of is irrelevant in regards to his behavior.

Do we have a secret invasion thread?

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

No, there isn't yet. I can start one up since the premiere is next week. Unless you want to start one.

At this point, after the losses of Chadwick Boseman and William hurt, and the alleged sexual misconduct of Jonathan majors and Tenoch Huerta, it seems amazing that phases one two and three went off with a few hitches as they did.

Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot lately, too. Aside, of course, from Terrence Howard.

As for Johnny Depp and Amber Heard, I am of the belief that that was an absolutely toxic mutually abusive relationship all the way around. Nobody is innocent in that particular case, despite what a jury might decide. The best that can really be said of that trial is that his lawyer presented a much better case than hers did.

Agreed all around.

 

[Timby]

Okay, y'all, discussion of the Heard / Depp shitshow saga isn't germane to the topic at hand (which is Marvel movies). Move it along.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot lately, too. Aside, of course, from Terrence Howard.

And Norton, the thing with Edgar Wright's Ant-Man, and a string of controversies surrounding Marvel Studios consistently lowballing actors (especially ScarJo IIRC.) If memory serves, it was only resolved when RDJ threw his weight behind his castmates in renegotiations to make sure they got fairer contracts.
But at least those were all just squabbles about money, not this kind of mess.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Damn, I can't believe I completely forgot about Ed Norton, especially since I was originally so bummed that he exited (can't say the same about Howard).

In Norton's case, he also wanted more creative control. I get that especially considering the kind of character he was playing and wanted to develop, but I'm also not surprised Marvel didn't want to do that, at least not then.

 

[Reverend]

Damn, I can't believe I completely forgot about Ed Norton, especially since I was originally so bummed that he exited (can't say the same about Howard).

In Norton's case, he also wanted more creative control. I get that especially considering the kind of character he was playing and wanted to develop, but I'm also not surprised Marvel didn't want to do that, at least not then.

I think it was ultimately for the best. I consider Mark Ruffalo a definite upgrade as both Hulk and Banner. With Norton; while both of his characters worked on their own just fine, I didn't see much of anything connecting the two. With Ruffalo, you can really see them both as aspects of the same person, which is really brought home with Smug Smart Hulk, who's a clear amalgam of the two. It's really surprisingly subtle craft. It also helps that Ruffalo just has the right head shape too.

And yeah, from things I've read over the years, I get the impression that Norton may not have been the best fit for an ensemble franchise. I don't want to say he's not a team player, but he seems a little too eager to take the reigns at times. I can see that causing friction when his ideas go in the opposite direction of what the larger franchise needs.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Yeah, that's why I said I was originally bummed about Norton's departure. As much as I enjoyed Norton's performance and how he invoked Bill Bixby, Mark Ruffalo is on a different level as you described. Much like Don Cheadle with Rhodie, I wish Ruffalo had been in the role originally.

 

[Anwar]

The director always wanted Ruffalo to play Banner but studio higher ups wanted Norton. Then when Norton wouldn't come back they just let him get who he wanted.

 

[JD]

Meanwhile, Secret Invasion director Ali Selim told Games Radar is hopes for a potential second season:

"And as Marvel does so excellently, you also feel like 'Oh, it could go in this direction.' Nick Fury is alive and continues to battle, I don’t think that’s a spoiler alert. And there are some characters that are no longer with us and some characters that live to see another challenge. I would love to see that challenge become season two."​

I wonder if the Skrulls will still be an issue at the end then, or if Season 2 would deal with a totally new threat?

This kind of behavior is prominent in many professions and industries. One doesn't have to focus mainly on the entertainment industry.

Yeah, at this point it's a problem with our whole society, not just the entertainment industry.

 

[The Knappos]

The director always wanted Ruffalo to play Banner but studio higher ups wanted Norton. Then when Norton wouldn't come back they just let him get who he wanted.

The Incredible Hulk - Dir: Louis Leterrier
The Avengers - Dir: Joss Whedon

Are you saying there is a very low liklihood that anyone has ever seen Louis Leterrier and Joss Whedon in the same room?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I think it was ultimately for the best. I consider Mark Ruffalo a definite upgrade as both Hulk and Banner. With Norton; while both of his characters worked on their own just fine, I didn't see much of anything connecting the two.

Perhaps that is due to the Hulk--particularly early stage Hulk--being a violent perversion of the Banner personality, so its not just the same guy growing by a few sizes, but retaining much of the normal personality anyone would recognize (similar to what was written for the early Incredible Hulk / Tales to Astonish stories). Norton created the most spot-on Banner since Bixby (by far, the greatest live action Banner), and his internal conflict felt like the dangerous struggle it should be. Ruffalo's Banner never captured that in his debut, and i've always felt Norton would have brought so much to the larger film series.

 

[Reverend]

Perhaps that is due to the Hulk--particularly early stage Hulk--being a violent perversion of the Banner personality, so its not just the same guy growing by a few sizes, but retaining much of the normal personality anyone would recognize (similar to what was written for the early Incredible Hulk / Tales to Astonish stories). Norton created the most spot-on Banner since Bixby (by far, the greatest live action Banner), and his internal conflict felt like the dangerous struggle it should be. Ruffalo's Banner never captured that in his debut, and i've always felt Norton would have brought so much to the larger film series.

I mean you can interpret it anyway that pleases you. The end result is still two functionally separate characters. I think the Ruffalo works better overall. Besides there's just something about Norton's take that never sat right with me. Not that he did a poor job of it, just that it wasn't a comfortable fit. Plus Ruffalo sold the "this guy is constantly on the edge of snapping" aspect of it far more convincingly IMO. There's a stillness to such people.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Maybe this is already well-known, and if so, apologies for repeating it, but apparently the role of Iron Man originally came down to a choice between RTD (obviously) and Timothy Olyphant. https://geektyrant.com/news/the-rol...F4vZU-x2JE6NFsutNYI_TY5g&utm_content=cmp-true
I’d previously read that Sam Rockwell was on Favreau’s shortlist for Stark but didn’t know about Olyphant. I do like Olyphant but not sure how I feel about him as Tony (I definitely think they went with the right man in that match-up, though).

 

[Anwar]

I thought Clive Owen was the first choice?

 

[Rich Watson]

I thought Clive Owen was the first choice?

He was too busy not being James Bond.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Maybe this is already well-known, and if so, apologies for repeating it, but apparently the role of Iron Man originally came down to a choice between RTD (obviously) and Timothy Olyphant. https://geektyrant.com/news/the-rol...F4vZU-x2JE6NFsutNYI_TY5g&utm_content=cmp-true
I’d previously read that Sam Rockwell was on Favreau’s shortlist for Stark but didn’t know about Olyphant. I do like Olyphant but not sure how I feel about him as Tony (I definitely think they went with the right man in that match-up, though).

News to me! I love Olyphant but I'm not sure if that would've worked. Maybe I'm just biased on the Downey take.

Besides, if he had become Iron Man, we probably wouldn't have gotten Justified with him and that would be a tragedy.