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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)


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As for the crossover. We shall see. They will be portraying the characters live action.
Tawny Newsome said that, Mariner at least, will not be as hyperactive/exaggerated like she is in Lower Decks. I imagine Boimler will also be toned down a bit.
 
Yeah, for once I actually agree with you. The Cap movies have by far been the most grounded stories in the MCU so far, and I really can't see them changing that tone, and I think suddenly throwing a giant alien that was petrified halfway through breaking out of the Earth would be taking things to far from the tone of the first 3 movies.

--which were more about the character's struggles with systems larger than himself and how it shaped him, instead of the plot being about yet another "biggest ever" alien influence. Stick any other Marvel character (not named Sam Wilson) in The First Avenger, and its just another hero fighting a villain with super-toys. TFA worked because of its focus on the choices and numerous sacrifices Rogers had to make, ignoring the risk for a greater idea (which he proved he could represent), and that he might not walk away from each conflict.

I'll admit we did get a pretty drastic tone and style change between The Dark World & Ragnarok, but I think that probably had a lot to do with the lukewarm reception that TDW received. So far the Cap movies and The Falcon & The Winter Soldier have gotten very positive reactions, so I really can't see them giving the series a Thor style revamp at this point.[/quote]

In theory, CA4 should not go in that direction, but Wolverine must happen, so the Adamantium plot also has to take the stage, which--by its nature and history in the past 40+ years of Marvel comics--is not some B-plot.

I love the fact that the different MCU series have such different tones and styles, and that they seem to be making a point of adding even more in the latest phases. One of my favorite things about shared universes like the MCU, the DCEU, and Star Trek and Star Wars is that they are open enough that you can tell pretty much any type of story in them, from darker grounded stories like The Winter Soldier, Discovery, or Rouge One to outright goofy comedies like She Hulk, Shazam, or Lower Decks.

Fans tend to create their own continuity when productions with tone / stories far removed from what was a standard are inserted into the series. Its not new at all, as I recall Star Wars fans rejecting the Ewok TV movies and '85 cartoon as being nothing more than content designed to make money and not a legitimate (or influential) part of the OT. That certainly happened in Bond and Salkind/Superman fandom, where--for a few examples, Octopussy or Superman III and IV have been ignored to the point of never referring to their plots when discussing the overall series.
 
TREK_GOD_1 said:
Its not new at all, as I recall Star Wars fans rejecting the Ewok TV movies and '85 cartoon as being nothing more than content designed to make money and not a legitimate (or influential) part of the OT.

And that one other thing... I dare not speak its name.
 
I'm not into the cartoons that much. Lower Decks was too futurama-ish for me. I know people think it's in the same continuity but I don't agree with that. Prodigy yeah I COULD see it. Lower Decks no. I feel the same way about the SW cartoons. Everyone says they are canon. But it seems producers cherry pick what they consider canon from the cartoons. So I look at it with a very big grain of salt.

As for the crossover. We shall see. They will be portraying the characters live action.
I would think the Star Wars cartoons would be a lot easier to accept since tonal and stylistically they're not that far off from the live action productions.
The producers treat it as existing at an elevated place than what would "really" happen. It's canon, but an exaggeration of in universe events. So the crossover will look differently.
That was pretty much what I was expecting.
In theory, CA4 should not go in that direction, but Wolverine must happen, so the Adamantium plot also has to take the stage, which--by its nature and history in the past 40+ years of Marvel comics--is not some B-plot.
I don't really see where it would need to be though, it's really not that complicated of an idea, it's just a super strong metal. And if they stick to the comics, Wolverine would have gotten it implanted decades ago, so it's not like it would be some brand new thing that would totally change the political landscape, it would have been around for ages.

Fans tend to create their own continuity when productions with tone / stories far removed from what was a standard are inserted into the series. Its not new at all, as I recall Star Wars fans rejecting the Ewok TV movies and '85 cartoon as being nothing more than content designed to make money and not a legitimate (or influential) part of the OT. That certainly happened in Bond and Salkind/Superman fandom, where--for a few examples, Octopussy or Superman III and IV have been ignored to the point of never referring to their plots when discussing the overall series.
Yeah, but other than Thor & Cap, they haven't changed the tone of the different series. What we're talking about is different series having different tones from each other, which is not the same thing.
 
JD said:
And if they stick to the comics, Wolverine would have gotten it implanted decades ago, so it's not like it would be some brand new thing that would totally change the political landscape, it would have been around for ages.
Fourth wall breaking aside, are they intending Deadpool 3 to be part of the MCU? If so, you've already got a fully established Wolverine.
 
I think so, I know it's at least being produced by Kevin Feige and Marvel Studios.
 
Deadpool 3 is confirmed as part of the MCU. However, the obvious expectation is that it's a multiverse movie and that we probably won't see Jackman again except as a multiverse character in stuff like Secret Wars.
 
Yeah, the recasting of the new Wolverine as a regular character in the MCU's 616 main continuity will make a giant splash. Jackman left behind a huge legacy and it will be hard for the new actor to follow in his footsteps as Jackman's Wolverine was universally praised ( even those complaining he is too tall shut up at some point).

Personally i'm really looking forward to the introduction of the X-Men and how they will do it and which characters will be in the initial lineup. I don't believe they will cross over any of the established actors and Patrick Stewart is getting really old, i don' believe he has 10+ years of multiple movies in him anymore that would be required of him. They'll probably go with an established actor in his early 50s, it's not a physically demanding role after all so no endless gym sessions to get that sixpack.
 
Jackman was entertaining, but the problem is that the FoX-Men universe tried to make him into the Hero of X-Men. The one singular hero of X-Men.

Wolverine is NOT that, he never was. Even once he mellowed out in the early 2000s and became more of a Mentor type in the comics. He's never been a Captain America or Iron Man type. X-Men's always been more an ensemble piece rather than led by 1 character. I know that's hard to do in movies.

Which is why when MCU X-Men starts, it might be better off as a series on streaming instead of a movie series. Easier to not shaft characters that way.
 
Jackman left behind a huge legacy and it will be hard for the new actor to follow in his footsteps as Jackman's Wolverine was universally praised ( even those complaining he is too tall shut up at some point).

Not at all -- I can praise his performance and insist he's too tall at the same time. Jackman was good, but he was good as a character very different from the comics' Wolverine, far more of a handsome leading man type. The easiest way the MCU could distinguish their new Wolverine from Jackman is by going for something closer to the comics' version, an almost animalistic wild man. And yes, someone short would be good, just so that the name would make sense. A wolverine is a small carnivore, disproportionately strong and dangerous for its diminutive size. Giving the name to someone of Jackman's height was incongruous, although the Origins movie managed to concoct a decent handwave for it.
 
Not at all -- I can praise his performance and insist he's too tall at the same time. Jackman was good, but he was good as a character very different from the comics' Wolverine, far more of a handsome leading man type. The easiest way the MCU could distinguish their new Wolverine from Jackman is by going for something closer to the comics' version, an almost animalistic wild man. And yes, someone short would be good, just so that the name would make sense. A wolverine is a small carnivore, disproportionately strong and dangerous for its diminutive size. Giving the name to someone of Jackman's height was incongruous, although the Origins movie managed to concoct a decent handwave for it.

I'm not sure Marvel will go this far because they may have concerns that a true to the source short, hairy, bad tempered character and actor might not get accepted as readily by the general, non comic book reader, audience.

Jackman's shadow might be too large and the audience might expect something similar in qualities to him. Personally i would be really ok for the new Wolverine to be closer to the comics, might bring in a good contract to the otherwise poster model actors they mostly choose.
 
I'm not sure Marvel will go this far because they may have concerns that a true to the source short, hairy, bad tempered character and actor might not get accepted as readily by the general, non comic book reader, audience.

Jackman's shadow might be too large and the audience might expect something similar in qualities to him. Personally i would be really ok for the new Wolverine to be closer to the comics, might bring in a good contract to the otherwise poster model actors they mostly choose.

MCU Wolverine is pretty much going to have to have a different dynamic, because the Fox movies turned Wolverine into a leading man/de facto lead, whereas by virtue of how the MCU works he's going to have to be at least modestly more of a supporting character.
 
I'm not sure Marvel will go this far because they may have concerns that a true to the source short, hairy, bad tempered character and actor might not get accepted as readily by the general, non comic book reader, audience.

It's backward reasoning to suggest that something can only work if the audience is already predisposed to like it. Good actors and good movies make the audience like them. Nobody would've thought Guardians of the Galaxy had a chance in hell of working. Nobody would've thought a TV show about a lead actor who hardly ever shows his face would work, but The Mandalorian is a hit. Heck, just keeping it within Jackman's co-stars, a lot of people in 1987 were skeptical that the Star Trek audience would accept a middle-aged bald Englishman as a starship captain. Audience acceptance is something you earn by offering them something worth accepting.

Peter Dinklage is a short, fairly hirsute actor who plays his share of bad-tempered characters, and he's quite successful. Heck, Dinklage would make a terrific Wolverine. He's actually an inch closer to Wolverine's height than Jackman is, just in the other direction.

The point I'm making is that Wolverine is not intrinsically a leading-man part, but a character part. Heck, he borders on being a movie-monster part. It would be a failure of imagination on the MCU's part if they just tried to copy how Jackman reinvented the character, rather than offering their own distinct approach. As I said, going closer to the source is the easiest way to offer something very different and thus avoid comparisons with Jackman.
 
I find it hilarious that twenty plus years later there are still people who talk about Wolverine's "incorrect" height. :lol:

It really does not matter.
 
I find it hilarious that twenty plus years later there are still people who talk about Wolverine's "incorrect" height. :lol:

It really does not matter.

It's not about "correctness," which would be a stupid standard to use when talking about imaginary things that don't exist. I'm just saying that an obvious way to differentiate the MCU's version from Jackman's version is to make theirs closer to the source. It matters if the goal is to make the two stand apart. Not because the comics version is "correct," just because it's different.
 
It's backward reasoning to suggest that something can only work if the audience is already predisposed to like it. Good actors and good movies make the audience like them. Nobody would've thought Guardians of the Galaxy had a chance in hell of working. Nobody would've thought a TV show about a lead actor who hardly ever shows his face would work, but The Mandalorian is a hit. Heck, just keeping it within Jackman's co-stars, a lot of people in 1987 were skeptical that the Star Trek audience would accept a middle-aged bald Englishman as a starship captain. Audience acceptance is something you earn by offering them something worth accepting.

Peter Dinklage is a short, fairly hirsute actor who plays his share of bad-tempered characters, and he's quite successful. Heck, Dinklage would make a terrific Wolverine. He's actually an inch closer to Wolverine's height than Jackman is, just in the other direction.

The point I'm making is that Wolverine is not intrinsically a leading-man part, but a character part. Heck, he borders on being a movie-monster part. It would be a failure of imagination on the MCU's part if they just tried to copy how Jackman reinvented the character, rather than offering their own distinct approach. As I said, going closer to the source is the easiest way to offer something very different and thus avoid comparisons with Jackman.

And all those movies/shows are better for it because they left the trodden path and had something unique to them. I am just not completely convinced Marvel will have the balls to try and experiment with such a possible big new thing. They have proven to be casting and hiring gods, almost always finding the perfect actor/actress/director/writer for the project even if it was not comics accurate. I hope they will try again with the X-Men and Wolverine in particular, i just don't see that they will gamble with a new multi-billion box office property.
 
I'm not sure Marvel will go this far because they may have concerns that a true to the source short, hairy, bad tempered character and actor might not get accepted as readily by the general, non comic book reader, audience.

Jackman's shadow might be too large and the audience might expect something similar in qualities to him. Personally i would be really ok for the new Wolverine to be closer to the comics, might bring in a good contract to the otherwise poster model actors they mostly choose.

If they bother actually focusing on the other X-Men, then it won't matter.

Yes, some folks will say "The original X-Men were too boring and if it weren't for characters like Wolverine then they'd have stayed cancelled"....but detractors also said that characters like Iron Man and Captain America were too boring and couldn't lead anything. If the MCU could change those opinions, then they can make the other X-Men interesting to watch too.
 
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