*crosses fingers and chants*
Wanda and Clea in the same mo-vie. Wanda and Clea in the same mo-vie. Wanda and Clea in the same mo-vie.
Oh, and Strange too. I guess.
Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
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*crosses fingers and chants*
Wanda and Clea in the same mo-vie. Wanda and Clea in the same mo-vie. Wanda and Clea in the same mo-vie.
Oh, and Strange too. I guess.
That's true, but it is still very much a question for this specific character. As of Endgame, Vision stayed dead for 5 years with no hint that anyone even thought that could change. And WandaVision has such a strange setting entirely out of the context of the rest of the MCU that it's almost a near certainty it either takes place in Wanda's head or she is somehow altering reality with her powers. So we really don't know if the end of that show will see Vision restored or if it will end with Wanda having to accept the reality that he's dead.
Yeah... but we'll find out when the show comes out. So I don't see any point in worrying about it now. We know we will get the answer eventually, so just wait until then.
It's pretty obvious from the context of what's been presented that the WandaVision thing is going to be trippy and it's hardly a leap to suppose that Paul Bettany's absence from 'Doctor Strange 2' might point to his role in the former being of the not really real Vision persuasion.
And is there something wrong with people making educated guesses and speculation? Did I mean to click on the discussion forum link and hit the "nobody have an independent thought" forum link by accident?
Of course anyone that really though that probably wouldn't bother wasting the effort discussing it, because that would be weird and borderline pathological.
And is there something wrong with people making educated guesses and speculation? Did I mean to click on the discussion forum link and hit the "nobody have an independent thought" forum link by accident?
I’m thinking he’s in through flashbacks or something that allows him to be dead. Wanda has been getting increasingly powerful over the last few years. Both the Russos and Feige have said she could have killed Thanos by herself in Endgame if not for her getting distracted. The series could be about her trying to bring Vision back through some means, possibly trying to access some alternate universe which would then tie into the Dr Strange movie.
It's certainly possible, but from everything I've seen and heard about this leads me to believe that they're going to go in a much less literal and more existential direction. Less of a quest to resurrect her dead boyfriend and more of a crisis of character, identity and perhaps even an uncomfortable look at mental illness.
When it comes to suffering personal loss, Wanda is arguably equal, or even a notch above Thor. Not just Vision, but her brother, their parents and pretty much her entire country and everyone she ever knew that wasn't a superhero or a psychotic robot. I mean what happens when someone that powerful starts to loose their grip on reality?
I guess that's a very roundabout way of saying that I think the more interesting story isn't about Vision, but about Wanda.
As for how it'll tie into 'Doctor Strange', I foresee two main possibilities: -
1) She's some kind of apprentice to better control her "condition", or at least understand it better. Maybe some kind of mystic rehab aver the fallout of whatever goes down on the show, or it may be as simple as she's moved into the sanctum because it's the only place on Earth and possibly in this universe where she's safe from herself and perhaps, everyone else is safe from her abilities.
2) She completely lost her shit, is tearing up the multiverse and is the main antagonist of the story. The twist there is that Mordu get's to be all "I told you so!" and may even be "helping" Strange. That doesn't make Wanda a villain exactly, but I can see it being something of a battle for her soul.
This pretty much lines up with my line of thinking. Of the two options, I'm more inclined to think it's the second. More than anything, I think that's more dramatically interesting for all involved.
Though, I sorta hope not. A story about a woman who goes crazy because her boyfriend got killed and a man comes in to stop her crazy.... Ew.
Hm, good point. I hadn't thought of that.
It's the sexist version of Fridging.
You know it just now occurred to me that those options aren't mutually exclusive. It could start off as #1 but then "X" happens and acts two & three are #2.
If handled poorly, yeah, that would be less than ideal.
As I said though, I would suggest that it not be about loosing her boyfriend so much as it being the latest in a long line of traumas and that the conversation be more about the stigma of mental illness than what happened to Vision.
Literally the first time we see her it looks like she's not quite all there. Now that could be just a side-effect of whatever Hydra did with the sceptre to give them powers, but still it's not hard to sell the idea that she has a pre-existing condition or at least a history of some kind of mental illness.
She's certainly been through enough with what happened with her parents to be left with some degree of PTSD or something similar.
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Sure, it’s always all in the execution, but why would you purposely create a story that you have to thread just right so half of your audience isn’t pissed off?
Also: if she’s the villain, by the end, what happens to the character? She’s redeemed? She’s cured? If she’s gone around causing trouble in the multiverse—and it won’t be cheeky stuff like drinking someone’s milk shake—will every one just shrug and be ok and we’ll see Wanda in the next avengers movie as friends?
It’s like Vader’s “redemption” at the end of Jedi. Just because he threw one old dude down a shaft doesn’t wipe away all of the Jedi and people he killed over the decades.
I know I’m being hyperbolic, but, I just don’t see them making Wanda the antagonist in Strange. It’s problematic and has consequences going forward. And I just realized they sorta did that story in Avengers 2.
I think they will explore her trauma in her show, and then maybe, she becomes a student of Strange, maybe her madness would kick off the story, but I would be surprised if she’s the real antagonist of Strange 2.
Counterpoint: my make a less interesting story that's guaranteed to offend nobody?
Marvel really doesn't need to play it safe at this point; haven't had to or done so for a while. Indeed, this is precisely the point where they should be making bold moves and taking chances to show audiences that the stories aren't getting stale, that it's not just the same-old same-old.
Did you miss the part where I specifically said...
There's a difference between villain and antagonist. The most apt comparison that comes to mind is Agatha from 'Paranorman'.
As to how it plays out in the end; that depends entirely on the trajectory of her character arc...and how many more movies/TV shows Olsen has signed up for.
Also, I take issue with the notion that a person recovering from a mental health episode should be equated to "redemption", since that implies fault where there should be none.
That assumes Wanda going crazy is the most interesting story to tell. Perhaps it’s not. If it is, what does that say about the character of Wanda? She’s only interesting when suffering trauma and lashing out?
Marvel takes its cues from Disney. A decidedly 4 quadrant company that makes movies for everyone. Disney isn’t know for its edgy choices.
Perhaps.
I haven’t seen Paranorman so I can’t address that. Sure, there is a difference between a villain and an antagonist. But, the antagonist will face off against the protagonist, in this case Strange.
Perhaps redemption is the wrong word. But if she’s the protagonist she has to be doing something that has stakes. Most likely people’s lives are in danger. Most likely people will die and/or suffer.
If so, the ending can’t be “Oh, Wanda, all is forgiven. Let’s go grab some coffee.” They should be consequences.
Even in our world, those who are suffering from a mental health episode face consequences from their actions.
And I don’t think Marvel is going to lock up Wanda.
All this to say: I doubt Wanda will be the antagonist in Strange’s movie.
I bet they will deal with Wanda’s trauma in her show where she’s the protagonist and they have the space for nuance.
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Trauma and loss has been the one constant of her character arc thus far.
And you say "going crazy" like she just ate a handful sherbet in one go and started climbing the walls. That's not how mental illness works. People get sick and yes, people lash out and in the process sometimes other people get hurt (sometimes physically, but most often, emotionally.) It's ugly, but speaking as someone that's been on and adjacent to the receiving end if such a thing, it's truthful. It's also not something often talked about or discussed, so yeah, I say that qualifies as an interesting story.
Most of all, it may give some kid out there some comfort to know that they aren't the only ones and that it's OK to be broken.
I guess I'd just rather they fail at doing something meaningful, than succeed at doing something banal.
I think "her sanity and well being" are stakes enough. I also think MCU movies are past the point where "buildings blowing up and scary sky-beams" are the only way to show "real stakes" are in play.
But sure, if you need that then how about "she's not loosing her grip on reality, she's warping and dragging reality along with her." I mean with a title like "Multiverse of Madness" it's not exactly a huge reach.
It’s not that I need that. They aren’t going to do 150 million dollar blockbuster where lives aren’t at stake. You don’t spend that sort of money for a global market and turn out Good Will Hunting.
Like I said, I bet they will deal with her trauma in HER show, where she will be the protagonist.
Wow. Reductionist much?
I'd love to see a high-drama character piece Marvel film.
I'd also love to see cold fusion as a reality.
I'd also love to see cold fusion as a reality.