Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[TREK_GOD_1]

I like both characters, so I would be very happy to see them get more focus. I have to admit, I forgot what their relationship was like in Civil War. If they continue that into the series, it could be a lot fun.

Eh. A Marvel bickering buddy cop show (essentially, the first Lethal Weapon) would get old quick. Both being survivors of war (and how their reactions differ from Cap's) and still adapting to the costume biz (because it would be realistic for some characters to not just jump into this as if its a regular job and lifestyle) would be the foundation used to build their budding friendship.

 

[Turtletrekker]

A Winter Soldier & Falcon show huh? So it's just gonna be about dust blowing in the wind then?

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[Thestral]

[QUOTE="Ethros, post: 12671547, member: 981]"I think it's because I always saw (and still do) see posts on social media (esp Instagram) about how it was such a traumatic ending to people. Loved the movie but even at the time I didn't get it it all; they were all so obviously coming back.[/QUOTE]

I do think Spidey and Tony's scene, at least, was quite moving even if you did know logically he's coming back. Also Rocket and Groot.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I think it's because I always saw (and still do) see posts on social media (esp Instagram) about how it was such a traumatic ending to people. Loved the movie but even at the time I didn't get it it all; they were all so obviously coming back.

I do think Spidey and Tony's scene, at least, was quite moving even if you did know logically he's coming back. Also Rocket and Groot.

Yeah. For my part, add pretty much the whole sequence to that list (for various different reasons).

I don't understand at all the idea that I shouldn't be affected by what's happening on the screen now simply because I know intellectually that most of these people will be ok in the end. That's not what stories are about. If that were the case, there'd never be any point in reading or enjoying anything other than the last chapter/page of a book or watching the last act of a movie/series.

 

[Ethros]

Yeah that's true. I think it was the said social media posts I saw and also a few people at work I talked to, who were like "it was so sad when Spider-Man etc died" and they actually believed it was for good. I kinda thought ha you really don't know how the movie industry works do you if you think they'd get rid of the Tom Holland, Chris Pratt, Benedict Cumberbatch, and especially Chadwick Boseman like that.

 

[Christopher]

I don't understand at all the idea that I shouldn't be affected by what's happening on the screen now simply because I know intellectually that most of these people will be ok in the end. That's not what stories are about. If that were the case, there'd never be any point in reading or enjoying anything other than the last chapter/page of a book or watching the last act of a movie/series.

Right. It's willing suspension of disbelief. We know that the characters aren't real in the first place, but we choose to pretend they are so we can get emotionally invested in the story. By the same token, we know the characters in an ongoing series (usually) won't die, but we choose to pretend we don't know that so we can get invested in the immediate emotion of a scene where they appear to be dead or in imminent danger of death. It's so strange to me that some people who routinely do the former of those things believe it's impossible to do the latter. The way to read fiction is not to constantly compare it against your knowledge of reality, but to set aside your knowledge of reality and immerse yourself in what the characters are feeling in the moment. If a death scene feels real and permanent to the characters within the scene, then it can feel real to the viewer or reader even knowing that it won't stick, because it's the emotions, not the facts, that shape our response.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Right. It's willing suspension of disbelief. We know that the characters aren't real in the first place, but we choose to pretend they are so we can get emotionally invested in the story. By the same token, we know the characters in an ongoing series (usually) won't die, but we choose to pretend we don't know that so we can get invested in the immediate emotion of a scene where they appear to be dead or in imminent danger of death. It's so strange to me that some people who routinely do the former of those things believe it's impossible to do the latter. The way to read fiction is not to constantly compare it against your knowledge of reality, but to set aside your knowledge of reality and immerse yourself in what the characters are feeling in the moment. If a death scene feels real and permanent to the characters within the scene, then it can feel real to the viewer or reader even knowing that it won't stick, because it's the emotions, not the facts, that shape our response.

Indeed. Not to mention the fact that a not insignificant part of the punch is wrapped up in more than just the temporary death of some characters. Steve and Tony will presumably succeed in getting Bucky and Peter back, but the probable cost of that means there's still a good chance none of them will ever see each other again. Okoye isn't going to just get over having to live without her trusted king just because he's ultimately returned to life. Ditto Rocket and his 'son'. And the most heartbreaking part of it all for me was Wanda - who literally seemed to welcome turning to dust, so how's she going to deal with being restored? That scene has plenty of consequences yet to come.

 

[Anwar]

What, so it's okay whenever people say "I felt bad when the Sentinels killed the mutants" in DOFP despite them bringing everyone back IN that movie but if IW kills off all those people and they don't immediately come back it's nor worth feeling sad about?

Heck, are we not supposed to feel sad when Doc Brown got killed at the start of Back to the Future when history is altered so he survives at the end?

 

[Marsden]

What, so it's okay whenever people say "I felt bad when the Sentinels killed the mutants" in DOFP despite them bringing everyone back IN that movie but if IW kills off all those people and they don't immediately come back it's nor worth feeling sad about?

Heck, are we not supposed to feel sad when Doc Brown got killed at the start of Back to the Future when history is altered so he survives at the end?

Doc Brown lost all of my sympathy when he ordered Capt. Kirk's son killed.

 

[JD]

OK, that one took me a minute.

 

[Marsden]

All I know is Avengers 4: Wrath of Squirrel Girl is going to Rock! I'm waiting for it!

 

[Alidar Jarok]

What, so it's okay whenever people say "I felt bad when the Sentinels killed the mutants" in DOFP despite them bringing everyone back IN that movie but if IW kills off all those people and they don't immediately come back it's nor worth feeling sad about?

When it happens in a movie, it has a different story structure than between movies.[/QUOTE]

 

[Grendelsbayne]

When it happens in a movie, it has a different story structure than between movies.

And that's supposed to make it worse how exactly?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I didn't say worse, just different. I'm not sure you're supposed to feel sad in Days of Future Past, though.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I didn't say worse, just different. I'm not sure you're supposed to feel sad in Days of Future Past, though.

In context, I'm really not sure what the point of just saying 'it's different' without any sort of value judgement is.

But you're probably right about the second part. I think you are supposed to feel sad/shocked about the opening fight (the first time the X-Men die) because that establishes the stakes of the film (it's immediately undone, of course, so you can't feel sad for very long). The second time around is more about the tension and heroism of the moment - 'will they make it in time - of course they will, because they will do whatever they have to to get the time', so to speak. And in the end, that's immediately undone, as well, with the implication that they all lived happily ever after/their heroic sacrifice was so powerful that they never even had to suffer through it at all.

 

[Turtletrekker]

To be filed under "what might have been"-- once upon a time, Marvel announced this date, November 2nd 2018, as the release date for an Inhumans motion picture.

Various factors led to this movie being canned and passed over to the TV division, who fucked it up royally. Somewhere out there in this vast Multiverse, Marvel fans are getting a big-budget, high quality Inhumans movie today. Can you imagine what their MCU must look like? Without the split between Kevin Feige and Ike Perlman, we probably wouldn't have gotten Black Panther or Captain Marvel. Also, there's the distinct possibility that this alternate universe's MCU would not have Spider-Man in it. Ultimately, I think things worked out for the best. But damn it, I still want to see Inhumans done right.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Kevin Feige is looking forward to using the Disney streaming service to tell longer stories...

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Kevin Feige is looking forward to using the Disney streaming service to tell longer stories...

Not a surprise considering the Loki, Scarlet Witch, and Bucky/Falcon shows. I know I'm beating the dead horse and it's a long shot and a plethora of other metaphors, but hopefully this means the recently canceled Netflix shows.

And before anyone comes in to point out the obvious, yes, I know Feige had nothing to do with those shows in the first place and has no emotional or creative investment in them. Just let a guy dream please. Thanks.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Not a surprise considering the Loki, Scarlet Witch, and Bucky/Falcon shows.

There is a rumor (and as there have zero official announcements from Marvel about the streaming service, they are technically all rumors) that the Scarlet Witch series will actually be a...

Spoiler: potential Aveners 4 spoiler

...Vision and Scarlet Witch series.

I'm intrigued by the possibilities. I expected Wanda to return, but had convinced myself that Vision was gone for good (hence the spoiler tag). The Marvel Cinematic Universe Visual Dictionary's entry for the Scarlet Witch has a passage that questions whether the Mind Stone gave her her powers or whether it unlocked something that was already there, bringing up the possibility of her and her brother being mutants after all. Could this show be setting up mutants and the X-Men?

Also, consider that there are two young actresses being cast for Avengers 4, One playing a teenage Cassie Lang, and another rumored to be Kate Bishop. Now the science / magic of how Wanda and Vision had children in the comics was always questionable at best and better avoided in the movies, but suppose Wanda and Vision were to adopt a pair of orphaned mutant twins named Billy and Tommy? Throw in Eli Bradley and you've got yourself the makings of some Young Avengers.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

There is a rumor (and as there have zero official announcements from Marvel about the streaming service, they are technically all rumors) that the Scarlet Witch series will actually be a...

Spoiler: potential Aveners 4 spoiler

...Vision and Scarlet Witch series.

I'm intrigued by the possibilities. I expected Wanda to return, but had convinced myself that Vision was gone for good (hence the spoiler tag). The Marvel Cinematic Universe Visual Dictionary's entry for the Scarlet Witch has a passage that questions whether the Mind Stone gave her her powers or whether it unlocked something that was already there, bringing up the possibility of her and her brother being mutants after all. Could this show be setting up mutants and the X-Men?

Also, consider that there are two young actresses being cast for Avengers 4, One playing a teenage Cassie Lang, and another rumored to be Kate Bishop. Now the science / magic of how Wanda and Vision had children in the comics was always questionable at best and better avoided in the movies, but suppose Wanda and Vision were to adopt a pair of orphaned mutant twins named Billy and Tommy? Throw in Eli Bradley and you've got yourself the makings of some Young Avengers.

Spoiler

Honestly, this is what I've been expecting the whole time since they announced the Scarlet Witch series, especially with Elizabeth Olsen and Paul Bettany repeatedly saying in interviews that they would love to do a series together. And while they were joking on this point, I love their idea of a domestic comedy.