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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

  • Total voters
    185
Christopher said:
Again, I think that's a cynical assumption. Looking at the article, it sounds like Downey and Feige/etc. were both thinking in terms of how to do something new, how to create an effective and authentic take on Doom as a character, and how to make it worthy of Downey's talents. I think trying to reduce that to a conversation about dollar signs is soulless and simplistic, and I want no part of that.
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I don't think people are against them doing something new. For as much as I think people want Downey to play Stark I also don't think fans want his death to be under minded. So it makes sense that they will instead want to see Stark but one that went evil and became Doom or had his body taken over etc. Much like how in the Deadpool movie they didn't bring the Wolverine we saw in all those other movies. But we saw a new Wolverine. So why fans still got to see what they wanted which is Jackman playing Wolverine again they did something different enough that it didn't ruin what happened to him in "Logan."
 
Or, Disney could grow a pair and leave Stark dead with no alternate / multiverse / cloned versions. Let stories have permanent stakes, instead of bending to the worst of fan obsessions.
 
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I find it very, very, very, very, hard to believe they brought RDJ back without some plan to connect Doom to Tony Stark. Yes, I know they have brought back actors to play different roles, but most of those roles were fairly far apart from each other, and none of them had the significance to the franchise as RDJ as Tony Stark.
And besides, I thought they already said at SDCC that he was a Tony Stark variant.
Right now my I'm thinking he's going look like Tony, but in every way except that he'll be fairly close to what Doom is like in the comics.
 
JD said:
I find it very, very, very, very, hard to believe they brought RDJ back without some plan to connect Doom to Tony Stark. Yes, I know they have brought back actors to play different roles, but most of those roles were fairly far apart from each other, and none of them had the significance to the franchise as RDJ as Tony Stark.
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Neither of those things makes it impossible. Robert Downey Jr.'s career is defined by far more than just his work for Marvel. He won an Oscar for Oppenheimer just 5 months ago, after being nominated twice before for Chaplin and Tropic Thunder. Is it really so inconceivable that they want Robert Downey Jr. for who he is, for his proven skills and achievements throughout his entire career, rather than just the small slice of it represented by Tony Stark?

Besides, filmmakers' decisions are often influenced by things the audience never sees, such as their established working relationships with an actor and whether a performer can be relied on to show up on time and deliver consistent work. There's a reason that many film and TV creators have favorite actors that they keep coming back to and casting in role after role. It's because their decisions are often more about the actor than the role, more about the long weeks, months, or years spent together making the film/show than about the merely hours-long content of the end result.

Feige and Downey have a long-standing working relationship that was clearly successful. Presumably, they enjoy working together. It's not at all hard for me to believe that they would want to work together again because of that relationship, rather than because of anything to do with the character of Tony Stark.


JD said:
And besides, I thought they already said at SDCC that he was a Tony Stark variant.
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I've only heard that as a rumor or speculation, as far as I recall.
 
Nothing I've seen or heard confirms the idea Doom is a Stark variant and I'm pretty sure I've seen the all SDCC stuff about RDJ being Doom.
 
JD said:
And besides, I thought they already said at SDCC that he was a Tony Stark variant.
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This did not happen. The Russo Brothers specifically called the character "Victor von Doom" on stage at SDCC, and in the recent THR interview linked above, RDJ commented on Kevin Feige's desire to "get Victor von Doom right".

ETA-- besides, if they want they to go down the "evil multiversal variant of a character" road, much better to save the concept for Reed Richards, which would be comics accurate.
 
Christopher said:
Neither of those things makes it impossible. Robert Downey Jr.'s career is defined by far more than just his work for Marvel. He won an Oscar for Oppenheimer just 5 months ago, after being nominated twice before for Chaplin and Tropic Thunder. Is it really so inconceivable that they want Robert Downey Jr. for who he is, for his proven skills and achievements throughout his entire career, rather than just the small slice of it represented by Tony Stark?
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When we're talking about an MCU project, yes it 100% is. He's just to big a part of the franchise, and to prominent as Tony Stark for me to believe that his Doom role isn't somehow connected. If his previous role hadn't been as popular and prominent, I would find it a lot easier to believe.
The only way I could maybe believe it was if it was just a voice role, but I doubt they would have made such a big dramatic announcement with RDJ there in a Doom costume, if we weren't going to see him onscreen playing Doom.

Christopher said:
Besides, filmmakers' decisions are often influenced by things the audience never sees, such as their established working relationships with an actor and whether a performer can be relied on to show up on time and deliver consistent work. There's a reason that many film and TV creators have favorite actors that they keep coming back to and casting in role after role. It's because their decisions are often more about the actor than the role, more about the long weeks, months, or years spent together making the film/show than about the merely hours-long content of the end result.

Feige and Downey have a long-standing working relationship that was clearly successful. Presumably, they enjoy working together. It's not at all hard for me to believe that they would want to work together again because of that relationship, rather than because of anything to do with the character of Tony Stark.
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Sure, but those tend to be in different unconnected movies and series.
Christopher said:
I've only heard that as a rumor or speculation, as far as I recall.
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Oh, OK. I must thought that speculation from the person who wrote the article I read was something said during the announcement.
 
So if he isn't a variant how are going to explain why he looks like Stark? Now I could see them doing this idea where he isn't Stark but he can make himself look like Stark so he can pretend to be a Stark Variant. Dr Doom I think is good with magic so he could in essence put a spell on people so they think he is Stark from another universe. Also it could be he is in disguise as Stark because the Fantastic Four would recognize him if he looked like he normally does. It's possible we won't see him don the Doom helmet until the ruse is up and he no longer has any reasons to pretend. Though I kind of like the idea maybe Dr Strange does something to him so he can fully revert to his old face though they doesn't stop him donning the rest of the outfit. Also what if they are able to fight him by giving him memories and feelings from the real Stark. Doom's evil plan is brought down by giving him conscience. He can't destroy a world that has all these people Stark cared about in it, even if he is not really Stark.
 
People accept different actors playing the same character all the time, (Banner, Rhodey, Ross, Fandral), why is it so hard for some people to accept the same actor playing a different character? They never had to "explain' to me why Don Cheadle didn't look like Terrence Howard and they won't have to explain to me why Harrison Ford doesn't look like William Hurt. They both have nudge-nudge, wink-wink acknowledgments of the change in the story and they moved on. In the case of Banner, they they didn't even do that for over a decade until She-Hulk. It seems to me as if the level of suspension of disbelief required in accepting a familiar actor in a new role would be similar.
 
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Turtletrekker said:
People accept different actors playing the same character all the time, (Banner Rhodey, Ross, Fandral), why is it so hard for some people to accept the same actor playing a different character?
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Big difference is Downey Jr as Iron Man is Iconic. The character and actor almost literally gave birth to the MCU. I think you can get away with changing actors in many cases. I think Harrison Ford for example will do great as the new Ross. But I do think people will have a hard time not thinking he will somehow become Stark or be upset if it doesn't happen. You can sort of get away with as a joke like Evans playing Johnny Storm again but yo do it in a Avengers movie is a risk.

Not a risk of people not showing up. The movie will make tons of money. But it could hurt down the line. People can say, screw fan expectations but look at Star Wars. After all these years they still haven't lived down the fact that they didn't give the fans the legacy characters together for one more adventure before turning it over to new characters.
 
But we know he looks like Stark. So it will even be extra weird if they don't notice he looks like Stark. Because the character is just to iconic to sort wash over that like they have with Rhodes and Ross and some others.
 
Jayson1 said:
But we know he looks like Stark. So it will even be extra weird if they don't notice he looks like Stark. Because the character is just to iconic to sort wash over that like they have with Rhodes and Ross and some others.
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We aren't characters in a movie. They don't notice when two characters who are played by the same actor show up. They don't notice when a character is played by a different actor. Because they fictional characters in a movie.
 
Yes but as we watch it we will end up spending a good chuck of the time waiting for the reveal that he is connected to Stark somehow. Thus the way we watch the movie will be impacted with this big expectation that not only do we expect but also want. If fans don't get it then that is where things can be a problem because then they can feel like they were sort of cheated. Granted some of that is on the fans of course because if they keep saying he won't be connected to Stark then in theory that should be enough but people will people. They will still end up having those feelings anyways.
 
Jayson1 said:
Yes but as we watch it we will end up spending a good chuck of the time waiting for the reveal that he is connected to Stark somehow. Thus the way we watch the movie will be impacted with this big expectation that not only do we expect but also want. If fans don't get it then that is where things can be a problem because then they can feel like they were sort of cheated. Granted some of that is on the fans of course because if they keep saying he won't be connected to Stark then in theory that should be enough but people will people. They will still end up having those feelings anyways.
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Then stop expecting it.
 
It can't be done. The chance of seeing Tony Stark again is to exciting to think about. Nothing can get in the way of hope and fan desire.
 
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