Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

Same.

And both are better than the first two films.

 

I like Thor Dark World more than Iron Man 3 and Age of Ultron.

 

I love Iron Man 3. I think it's great.

 

Another vote of love for Iron Man 3. It's deeply underappreciated, even if the madcap climax hasn't aged well...and I still hate Rhodey couldn't get a suit!

 

Yeah, I really enjoyed Iron Man 3 too. It introduced Trevor Slattery, and that right there is enough to movie it up a few spots in my list.

 

Funny how so many of us love Trevor now but remember how so many fans were foaming at the mouth about him ruining the Mandarian?

 

Yeah, the hardcore fans definitely had a.... strong reaction to him.

 

Eh, I think the real "Mandarin" in Shangi-Chi (aka Shang-Chi's Dad) was a much better villain then the fake one. Actually, to me Shang-Chi makes Iron Man 3 a lot better in some ways, because it puts the fake Mandarin stuff into a better context.

As for Iron Man 3 on its own, its ok but not great, I'd put it a bit below Iron Man 2. Its biggest problem is that Killian is a terrible villain, his version of AIM sucks and Trevor being an entertaining character does not compensate for any of that. Its a decent movie overall, but Iron Man deserved a better send off for his solo films.

I mean, nanite BS that gives people fire powers is not a particularly interesting obstacle to watch Iron man overcome, especially not with Iron Man villains like Crimson Dynamo, Madame Masque, Count nefaria, Controller, Living Laser, Titanium Man, Scarecrow, Unicorn, etc all still completely unused to this day (some of them would work better as minions to a big boss, but they're all more interesting then random fire burning super strong generic goons).

 

I admit to being angry at first at the bait and switch involved, but once I was able to appreciate Trevor as just being Trevor, I saw the whole thing as a brilliant plot twist. And Shang-Chi more than made up for the Mandarin bait and switch.

 

I loved the way IM3 handled the Mandarin. Instead of trying to make a fundamentally racist character more palatable and sweep his negative aspects under the rug, they leaned into and deconstructed the stereotyped aspect, using it as a commentary on how easily demagogues can manipulate people with xenophobia. It was nicely subversive and metatextual.

I liked Shang-Chi's approach too, but he was really based more on Marvel's version of Fu Manchu, amalgamating him with the Mandarin because they didn't have the rights to the name. And really, they threw out both stereotyped characters entirely and started over from scratch to create a better character in their place. The movie even made it clear that "Mandarin" was never his name for himself, and he held it in contempt.

 

Shang-Chi surprised me in that approach.

 

IM3 is still the worst MCU film for me. And while I think that Trevor is vastly overrated and the bait and switch fundamentally does not work on account of Kingsley's Mandarin being genuinely electric while Aldrich Killian is a total borefest, those things are way down low on the list of reasons why the movie sucks.

 

Ben Kingsley was marvelous in IM3. One major problem I had with IM3 was simply that I found the development of Pepper Potts in connection to the Extremis subplot to be shark-jumping.

 

I hated how they made Mandarin a joke when I first saw the movie. He didn't have to be faithful to the comic, by any means, but didn't like that he was a punchline.

"All Hail the King" fixed that for me, "Shang-Chi" doubly so.

 

But "he" wasn't. Trevor Slattery wasn't the Mandarin. The Mandarin was the character he was hired to play, a scapegoat created by Aldrich Killian to exploit Americans' xenophobic fears as a smokescreen for the rich white guy who was really the cause of their problems. Which is a nicely subversive and biting piece of social commentary, much more than a mere joke.

 

Yup, any qualms I had were washed away by "All Hail the King."

But even so, I always appreciated the subversive nature of Trevor as the Mandarin.

 

I really liked Trevor, and IM3 is still one of my all time MCU favourites (but then I usually do like Shane Black movies anyway.)
The comic book version of the Mandarin never interested me in the slightest. It's a backwards thinking relic of yellow peril, and it really wouldn't have fit into the story of Tony Stark anyway.

All of Tony Stark's real villains are the ones he creates himself, and each reflect some aspect of his psyche. Ironmonger is the legacy of his greed profiting from the business of death and destruction. Whiplash is the legacy of his father, and his inherited privilege. Ultron is the walking monologing embodiment of his hubris. Killian is the legacy of his narcissism. Where exactly would the "classic" comic Mandarin fit inside there exactly?

That's right, he wouldn't. But a deconstruction of all racist steriotypical Middle Eastern & East Asian bad guys that have been knocking around western media for the last century acting as a puppet for the real villain who is basically "what if pre-cave Tony actually had some drive and (evil) ambition"? That fits in just perfectly!

 

He's an evil scientist who finds alien-dragon rings that give him powers. Doesn't have to be any backwards thinking in the origin and there's any number of ways to fit that into Tony's background with a little imagination.

 

But why? How does any of that related to Tony or his character progression? "This movie I learned that Asian people with technology are bad and should be defeated"? Pass.
Besides that's an outside existential threat, and they already had Thanos slated for that role. So it's ill fitting AND redundant.

 

I'm not a big fan of the Iron Man movies, but they were okay to me. Yeah, that's about it.