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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)


  • Total voters
    185
I've been pretty happy with Phase 4 so far, I don't think any of what we got has been the absolute best of the MCU, but I've enjoyed it all. It does feel like they're starting to expierment a bit more, with a bigger variety of genres, from the closest we've gotten to horror in Multiverse of Madness, to the Eternals, and now a more character-based comedy with She-Hulk.
 
I've been pretty happy with Phase 4 so far, I don't think any of what we got has been the absolute best of the MCU, but I've enjoyed it all. It does feel like they're starting to expierment a bit more, with a bigger variety of genres, from the closest we've gotten to horror in Multiverse of Madness, to the Eternals, and now a more character-based comedy with She-Hulk.
To be fair, and to add a little bit more clarity to my response to Christopher's comments, I have gotten more in the mindset of taking films as individual pieces rather than a part of a phase. Initially, I wasn't just watching because "Hey, I like this movie" but because it had bits that made me intrigued to the larger world. Bear in mind I am not a comic book fan. I have little interest in comic books as they are a medium I don't derive pleasure from. So, much of what others might take for granted being more familiar with comics I did not have so I was willing to give poorer outings more of a pass and would still engage with the material.

That's all changed now. I don't care about phases or larger tapestry or bigger worldbuilding. Watching Civil War and Infinity War/Endgame was enough. It's too big, too monstrous, for me to grasp it. I could grasp Phase 1 and was on board. I don't any more.

No doubt, many will say "Well, that's how you should approach any film." To which I say, OK, whatever. But, when I see references to "THE MCU" (echoing) I just roll my eyes because it's not interesting any more. That's the difference for me-Marvel films use to get the benefit of the doubt; no longer.
 
To be fair, and to add a little bit more clarity to my response to Christopher's comments, I have gotten more in the mindset of taking films as individual pieces rather than a part of a phase.

Huh? That's exactly what I'm saying one should do. A "phase" is merely the sum of a set of individual parts. The only relevant question is, are the individual productions enjoyable? And I think they have been. Some are better than others, but the same goes for the previous phases. I just don't notice any significant drop in quality, and that's got nothing to do with phases or interconnections, since as I keep saying, the unity of the whole doesn't matter if the parts aren't good.
 
Huh? That's exactly what I'm saying one should do. A "phase" is merely the sum of a set of individual parts. The only relevant question is, are the individual productions enjoyable? And I think they have been. Some are better than others, but the same goes for the previous phases. I just don't notice any significant drop in quality, and that's got nothing to do with phases or interconnections, since as I keep saying, the unity of the whole doesn't matter if the parts aren't good.
Yes. That's where I'm at now. When I was originally watching the whole mattered more to me.
 
Yes. That's where I'm at now. When I was originally watching the whole mattered more to me.

I thought you were saying that the quality had declined in this phase. Looking back over your comments, I guess you're just saying that the quality of its interconnectedness seems weaker, that Phase IV seems less unified than the previous two. I think it's supposed to be, though, since they're kind of starting over with a new three-phase cycle culminating with another Avengers 2-parter in Phase VI. So at this point they're just introducing new characters and planting seeds.
 
I thought you were saying that the quality had declined in this phase. Looking back over your comments, I guess you're just saying that the quality of its interconnectedness seems weaker, that Phase IV seems less unified than the previous two. I think it's supposed to be, though, since they're kind of starting over with a new three-phase cycle culminating with another Avengers 2-parter in Phase VI. So at this point they're just introducing new characters and planting seeds.
That's more along the lines of my thoughts. Nothing draws me to the next one.
 
The Dark World and Iron Man 3 are easily my least-favorite Marvel movies from between 2008 and 2020. The Eternals would probably rank third-lowest overall.
 
That's more along the lines of my thoughts. Nothing draws me to the next one.

Apologies, I misinterpreted what you were saying earlier. I have to agree that the tag scenes are just not the same as they used to be. They seem to be setting up storylines that are still far in the future rather than teasing the next Marvel instalment. I have a problem with this too.
 
The low points for me were Thor Dark World and Iron Man 3, way back in Phase 2. I think I'd watch Eternals again before those two. :lol:

The Dark World and Iron Man 3 are easily my least-favorite Marvel movies from between 2008 and 2020. The Eternals would probably rank third-lowest overall.

I felt Iron Man 3 was far superior to Iron Man 2, but that has to do with me being so happy to see my favorite MCU hero being crippled by anxiety in a way I fully understand. Panic attacks and all. That was amazing to me. Plus, Iron Man 2 had one of the worst/weakest villians of the MCU.

Dark World is still entertaining to me, but you can tell that it was edited to hell and that a lot was left on the cutting room floor.

As for the current state of the MCU...
I feel that they are trying to set up Phase 5 and 6 without really knowing what they're doing with them. Sure, they have a general idea but no specific plots and scripts for the movies that are coming out, except the ones being filmed or are in post right now.
So they're just throwing in random shit to that they can go in several directions with at later points should they so desire.

Unless ofcourse they literally have it planned out step by step and I'll be eating crow later on. And I'll definitely admit I'm wrong.
 
I like IM3 as well. It was important to have a more low key solo film after the big deal that was The Avengers, and I liked how we got to see Tony dealing with the repercussions of the events of that movie. It was a great character development story, and we haven't really seen that since.
 
Unless ofcourse they literally have it planned out step by step and I'll be eating crow later on. And I'll definitely admit I'm wrong.

I think I heard that Feige has the MCU planned out a decade in advance. Even if it's not quite that far ahead, what the public knows about upcoming productions in film, TV, etc. is rarely more than a fraction of what's been planned or decided, and there's generally a gap of months or years between when a decision is made and when it's announced to the public. Especially with these big franchises that plan out their announcements to be big events and go to great lengths to keep everything secret until they're ready.

So what we know about the MCU's future is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
I think I heard that Feige has the MCU planned out a decade in advance. Even if it's not quite that far ahead, what the public knows about upcoming productions in film, TV, etc. is rarely more than a fraction of what's been planned or decided, and there's generally a gap of months or years between when a decision is made and when it's announced to the public. Especially with these big franchises that plan out their announcements to be big events and go to great lengths to keep everything secret until they're ready.

So what we know about the MCU's future is just the tip of the iceberg.

I know. I said that it's planned out. In rough lines. Not in detail, so some of the decisions that we;re seeing right now can be made into anything at some point.
You need to realise that for the biggest part of that decade, no actual detailed story-outlines or script are written. Just a generic 'We want the Fantastic Four and we want it do deal with the Multiverse and Kang'. That's it. Nothing more.
There's a whole team coming together often to spitball new idea's and stories. What they have in their heads for a possible Fantastic Four movie based on events right now, can change in 10 months when someone drops a script for the movie or show that is released before FF and the people behind FF will say 'hey, that's cool. If we alter this and that for FF we can make it work in a different way, and tie it back to that one scene in GotG 3 that we filmed but never thought we could tie into FF untill now.'
 
I know. I said that it's planned out. In rough lines. Not in detail, so some of the decisions that we;re seeing right now can be made into anything at some point.
You need to realise that for the biggest part of that decade, no actual detailed story-outlines or script are written. Just a generic 'We want the Fantastic Four and we want it do deal with the Multiverse and Kang'. That's it. Nothing more.

I think you're understating it. Yes, any intelligent storyteller will have a plan loose and adaptable enough to be adjusted over time. But that doesn't mean there's no definite plan at all. It just means that plans are meant to be frameworks, not prison bars. It means that flexibility and change are integral, normal parts of the creative process. You have a definite idea of the big picture, the key points you need to hit, but you allow yourself leeway to adjust the specifics and rearrange the pieces, so you're able to adapt to changing circumstances or rework when you have a better idea.

Those of us who were first-generation Babylon 5 fans saw this happen with J. Michael Straczynski's master plan. He had a whole road map plotted out for a 5-year series, but he was frequently forced to make adjustments due to cast changes and unexpected circumstances. Yet he was able to rework his idea and incorporate them in different ways, which were often an improvement. When the show wasn't renewed for a fifth season, he compressed his last two seasons' plans to tell the whole story in one season. Then TNT picked it up for another year, and he rebuilt a fifth season by combining leftover pieces of his original plan with elements from a sequel series he'd intended to do. So he managed to work in most of the concepts he'd intended to cover from the start, even if they ended up being done in different ways than he'd originally envisioned.

No, of course the MCU doesn't have detailed scripts written yet, because that's the purview of the individual creators they hire and they're right to give those creators the freedom to do their own thing. But that doesn't mean they have "nothing more" than the vague generalities they've allowed us to hear about. I'm sure that Feige and his team "break" their phases the same way a TV writers' room breaks its season arcs. They work out a list of the key story and character beats that have to happen over the course of the season (or phase), and then they assign specific writers to work out the details of what parts of that list go into which episode, and how they're incorporated. It's probably all on a big whiteboard somewhere so they can erase and rewrite as they go. There's usually a whiteboard.

I've had similar experiences when I've worked on collaborative Star Trek prose projects. I've been assigned to tell a particular part of the story and work in specific beats, but it's been left to me to work out my own story and decide how to incorporate those beats and concepts. For instance, in Greater than the Sum, I was told "wrap up the loose Borg thread from the last book" and "have Picard and Crusher decide to start a family," but it was entirely up to me how to do those things. Still, it was known what the status quo would be at the end of my book. That was already locked in ahead of time. A loose plan does not mean there is no plan.
 
I think you're understating it. Yes, any intelligent storyteller will have a plan loose and adaptable enough to be adjusted over time. But that doesn't mean there's no definite plan at all. It just means that plans are meant to be frameworks, not prison bars. It means that flexibility and change are integral, normal parts of the creative process. You have a definite idea of the big picture, the key points you need to hit, but you allow yourself leeway to adjust the specifics and rearrange the pieces, so you're able to adapt to changing circumstances or rework when you have a better idea.

Those of us who were first-generation Babylon 5 fans saw this happen with J. Michael Straczynski's master plan. He had a whole road map plotted out for a 5-year series, but he was frequently forced to make adjustments due to cast changes and unexpected circumstances. Yet he was able to rework his idea and incorporate them in different ways, which were often an improvement. When the show wasn't renewed for a fifth season, he compressed his last two seasons' plans to tell the whole story in one season. Then TNT picked it up for another year, and he rebuilt a fifth season by combining leftover pieces of his original plan with elements from a sequel series he'd intended to do. So he managed to work in most of the concepts he'd intended to cover from the start, even if they ended up being done in different ways than he'd originally envisioned.

No, of course the MCU doesn't have detailed scripts written yet, because that's the purview of the individual creators they hire and they're right to give those creators the freedom to do their own thing. But that doesn't mean they have "nothing more" than the vague generalities they've allowed us to hear about. I'm sure that Feige and his team "break" their phases the same way a TV writers' room breaks its season arcs. They work out a list of the key story and character beats that have to happen over the course of the season (or phase), and then they assign specific writers to work out the details of what parts of that list go into which episode, and how they're incorporated. It's probably all on a big whiteboard somewhere so they can erase and rewrite as they go. There's usually a whiteboard.

I've had similar experiences when I've worked on collaborative Star Trek prose projects. I've been assigned to tell a particular part of the story and work in specific beats, but it's been left to me to work out my own story and decide how to incorporate those beats and concepts. For instance, in Greater than the Sum, I was told "wrap up the loose Borg thread from the last book" and "have Picard and Crusher decide to start a family," but it was entirely up to me how to do those things. Still, it was known what the status quo would be at the end of my book. That was already locked in ahead of time. A loose plan does not mean there is no plan.

Christopher, please read my post again. I never said there was NO PLAN. Your last sentence implies that's what I said.

We're saying the same thing here. Just re-read my posts.
 
Christopher, please read my post again. I never said there was NO PLAN. Your last sentence implies that's what I said.

We're saying the same thing here. Just re-read my posts.

Your words: "Just a generic 'We want the Fantastic Four and we want it do deal with the Multiverse and Kang'. That's it. Nothing more."

"Nothing more?" That is the complete opposite of what I'm saying.
 
Your words: "Just a generic 'We want the Fantastic Four and we want it do deal with the Multiverse and Kang'. That's it. Nothing more."

"Nothing more?" That is the complete opposite of what I'm saying.

Then you still don't understand the rest of my posts, but that doesn't surprise me.
 
I think the movies now in the current phase have more planning behind them than phase 1 especially, where they were just hoping things would work out.

Even phase 2 (Thanos grabbing his gauntlet) show that they were making more up as they went along.

They've undoubtedly learned a lot since then. There's probably just more decisions for things like Moon Knight where they say not everthing NEEDS to connect. Yet again, we may see stuff later that shows this was wrong as well.
 
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