Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Anwar]

Why does it have to be used in a Captain America movie?

Why Not?

Marvel could have saved the Civil War story arc for an Avengers film.

Because they were saving Thanos for the 3rd and 4th Avengers films and chose Civil War to be one of the factors towards explaining how they'd lose.

See, this hypocrisy gets annoying. First it's all "Why didn't the other characters show up in Iron Man 3 or Thor Dark World?" and then they incorporate other characters into Cap 3 and we get this attitude.

I wanted a third Captain America film in which he had his final confrontation with HYDRA . . . to round out his story arc.

Hydra was expanded to no longer just be a Captain America villain. Having him only be fighting them in his movies is lazy writing anyways.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Civil War was a Captain America movie. The notion that it is less so because other heroes appeared is nonsense, especially in a shared universe. The story focused on Captain America and his decisions, featured his supporting characters, and tied up his hanging plot threads. There was closure to Peggy's story, Bucky's story and even Howard Stark's. There is even closure with Steve's time as Captain America when he gave up the shield.

 

[theenglish]

Civil War was a Captain America movie. The notion that it is less so because other heroes appeared is nonsense, especially in a shared universe. The story focused on Captain America and his decisions, featured his supporting characters, and tied up his hanging plot threads. There was closure to Peggy's story, Bucky's story and even Howard Stark's. There is even closure with Steve's time as Captain America when he gave up the shield.

My kids who were 10 at the time got this. I can't figure out why it is so hard for adults to understand.

 

[Anwar]

My kids who were 10 at the time got this. I can't figure out why it is so hard for adults to understand.

They're stuck in anytime prior to 2008 apparently.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I thought Civil War worked great as a Captain America movie. My preference would have been for something more ambitious (and entire phase of movies*), but I can't complain with the direction Marvel went. They produced a ton of entertaining movies and there's no guarantee that the contract situation would have worked itself out to allow them to do both.

* My idea would be to start with a sort of Iron Wars storyline that transitioned into Stark supporting the Superhuman Registration Act. Then there would have been a Captain America movie with a New Avengers team where he's underground, hiding from the government, and stopping some independent threat. Then we would have had an Avengers movie where it came to a head.

But, if we did that, we probably wouldn't have had the amazing appearance of Ghost in Ant-Man and the Wasp. The resolution of the Winter Soldier storyline probably wouldn't have lined up as neatly with Stark's past since it would logically be resolved in the final movie but also should be resolved in a Captain America movie. We probably would have had to push Black Panther to phase four. It might not have been worse but it might not have been better and it certainly would have been different.

 

[Anwar]

I thought Civil War worked great as a Captain America movie. My preference would have been for something more ambitious (and entire phase of movies*), but I can't complain with the direction Marvel went. They produced a ton of entertaining movies and there's no guarantee that the contract situation would have worked itself out to allow them to do both.

* My idea would be to start with a sort of Iron Wars storyline that transitioned into Stark supporting the Superhuman Registration Act. Then there would have been a Captain America movie with a New Avengers team where he's underground, hiding from the government, and stopping some independent threat. Then we would have had an Avengers movie where it came to a head.

But, if we did that, we probably wouldn't have had the amazing appearance of Ghost in Ant-Man and the Wasp. The resolution of the Winter Soldier storyline probably wouldn't have lined up as neatly with Stark's past since it would logically be resolved in the final movie but also should be resolved in a Captain America movie. We probably would have had to push Black Panther to phase four. It might not have been worse but it might not have been better and it certainly would have been different.

Also, without Civil War splitting the team we wouldn't have had Infinity War.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Eh, that's an easily changed detail in Infinity War. They can be spread across the globe for any number of reasons.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Eh, that's an easily changed detail in Infinity War. They can be spread across the globe for any number of reasons.

Maybe but this feels more natural than "Oh, the Avengers just happened to be spread across the globe when this terrible threat happened" which would've come off as forced. I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible, but I think that built-in schism probably works better than the potential alternative.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

That's just because it's what we're used to. There was a very serious discussion about how they could possibly do Infinity War given the fractured nature of the Avengers after Civil War so the way they went wasn't inherently clearly better.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

That's true. I do remember that discussion (and I think I was one of those who was "very concerned" ).

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Marvel Developing Shang-Chi Movie with 'Wonder Woman 1984' Writer

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Huh, never heard of that character.

 

[LJones41]

Because they were saving Thanos for the 3rd and 4th Avengers films and chose Civil War to be one of the factors towards explaining how they'd lose.

If I must be brutally frank, the MCU could have skipped the Sokovia Accords arc altogether. In the end, Marvel didn't really do much with it. Judging from Season 3 of "Agents of SHIELD", a clash over the Inhumans and other enhanced beings had already started nearly a year before "Civil War" was released. This clash only continued in the first half of Season 4. The writers could have used another reason for Scott Lang to end up under house arrest without the Sokovia Accords. The MCU barely used the Sokovia Accords in other Marvel movies and television shows after "Civil War". In fact, I'm surprised that the subject did not come up in "Homecoming", considering that the public knew about Spider-man. After supporting the Accords throughout most of "Civil War", T'Challa disregarded it altogether when he gave Bucky sanctuary in Wakanda. And what was stated about Wakanda's isolaionism in "Black Panther" contradicted with King T'Chaka's response to the incident in Lagos and his overt support of the Accords in "Civil War". I though the whole topic was just a big mess.

Not only was the Accords arc a big waste of time, it was barely utilized by the franchise. And Chris Evans could have had his third solo Captain America film without Kevin Feige, Robert Downey Jr. and questionable writing mucking up the works.

 

[Christopher]

Huh, never heard of that character.

Shang-Chi was originally created by Steve Englehart and Jim Starlin to be the son of Fu Manchu, the "Yellow Peril" villain from Sax Rohmer's pulp stories, who'd been played by Christopher Lee in a series of '60s movies. Marvel got the rights to Fu Manchu but wanted to do something more in the vein of Kung Fu, so they invented a son who was raised to inherit Fu's evil legacy but chose instead to renounce it and fight against him. Marvel subsequently lost the rights to use Fu's name, so they've rarely featured Shang-Chi's father since and have either avoided naming him or established that he's gone by many aliases. Anyway, from the movie description, it sounds like they're totally divorcing Shang-Chi from that origin, which is just as well, since there is a ton of racist baggage built into the Fu Manchu character.

 

[JD]

Marvel Developing Shang-Chi Movie with 'Wonder Woman 1984' Writer

Huh, never heard of that character.

I've heard of him, but I don't have any experience with him. He's not someone I would have expected to get a movie.

If I must be brutally frank, the MCU could have skipped the Sokovia Accords arc altogether. In the end, Marvel didn't really do much with it. Judging from Season 3 of "Agents of SHIELD", a clash over the Inhumans and other enhanced beings had already started nearly a year before "Civil War" was released. This clash only continued in the first half of Season 4. The writers could have used another reason for Scott Lang to end up under house arrest without the Sokovia Accords. The MCU barely used the Sokovia Accords in other Marvel movies and television shows after "Civil War". In fact, I'm surprised that the subject did not come up in "Homecoming", considering that the public knew about Spider-man. After supporting the Accords throughout most of "Civil War", T'Challa disregarded it altogether when he gave Bucky sanctuary in Wakanda. And what was stated about Wakanda's isolaionism in "Black Panther" contradicted with King T'Chaka's response to the incident in Lagos and his overt support of the Accords in "Civil War". I though the whole topic was just a big mess.

Not only was the Accords arc a big waste of time, it was barely utilized by the franchise. And Chris Evans could have had his third solo Captain America film without Kevin Feige, Robert Downey Jr. and questionable writing mucking up the works.

Is there anything you actually do like?

 

[Anwar]

If I must be brutally frank, the MCU could have skipped the Sokovia Accords arc altogether. In the end, Marvel didn't really do much with it.

Well, except us it to set up things so Thanos wouldn't face the combined might of all the Avengers in IW and thus allow him to win...

In fact, I'm surprised that the subject did not come up in "Homecoming", considering that the public knew about Spider-man.

It did, one of Peter's teachers talked about them in class. Peter was being protected by Tony.

After supporting the Accords throughout most of "Civil War", T'Challa disregarded it altogether when he gave Bucky sanctuary in Wakanda. And what was stated about Wakanda's isolaionism in "Black Panther" contradicted with King T'Chaka's response to the incident in Lagos and his overt support of the Accords in "Civil War".

T'Chaka was the one who chose to end the isolationism, though he didn't want anyone to know the truth about how advanced Wakanda was. And T'Challa offered sanctuary to Bucky because he realized he was wrong. It's called character development.

Not only was the Accords arc a big waste of time, it was barely utilized by the franchise. And Chris Evans could have had his third solo Captain America film without Kevin Feige, Robert Downey Jr. and questionable writing mucking up the works.

It was a great third film, and much less predictable than a bland 3rd time fight with Hydra.

 

[Turtletrekker]

In an... interesting bit of timing, Brian Cronan at CBR recently wrote not one, but two, pieces on Shang-Chi and Fu Manchu...

A Fu Manchu By Any Other Name

and

Why Can't Marvel Use Fu Manchu if His Novels are Public Domain?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I read a few Deadly Hands of Kung Fu issues that had Iron Fist and I read a few guest appearances here and there.

I've been saying for a few years, though, that they should do a movie with him. Marvel needs a prominent male Asian hero and he's certainly the best choice.

 

[Nerys Myk]

He first appeared during my Prime comics reading time (the 70's) so ads for his book were in all the Marvel titles I picked up. Never read his title (or Iron Fist's for that matter) but oddly enough I was a big fan of the Kung Fu TV show.

 

[Christopher]

In an... interesting bit of timing, Brian Cronan at CBR recently wrote not one, but two, pieces on Shang-Chi and Fu Manchu...

Those were my sources for my earlier remarks -- thanks for tracking down the originals. I don't think I've ever read any comics featuring the character.

I've been saying for a few years, though, that they should do a movie with him. Marvel needs a prominent male Asian hero and he's certainly the best choice.

It's not like they have a large pool of candidates. But why do they need a male one? Just give me a Colleen Wing movie with Jessica Henwick and I'll be happy.