Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Anwar]

Hey, remember when Steve worked for SHIELD in Winter Soldier he was partnered with Natasha? So lame and predictable.

I mean, a sad result of that is that Natasha took over the role that Sharon Carter usually had and this is why her MCU character wasn't done well...

 

[Turtletrekker]

Yeah, because Natasha has never worked for SHIELD in the comics...

 

[JD]

That's really disappointing to read...although I'm also surprised they wanted to include her in Brand New Day of all films.

Hopefully this increases the chances of her appearing in season 3 of Born Again.

Yeah, I'm hoping there's still a chance she could show up on Born Again as some point.

Beh, sounds like gutless fanservice.

Not any more than include characters like The Hulk or Punisher. If anything I would it makes more sense since it's already been established that she helps heroes. Before this we've seen nothing that would even hint at a link between Spider-Man and The Punisher.

I just don't see why the Netflix characters have to keep showing up in Spider-Man related stuff. Why not have Daredevil or Claire or anyone else from Netflix show up in a Hawkeye story or Ms Marvel or anywhere else?

It makes sense to me since it's the most street level movie series, although I will admit she could have been a good fit for Hawkeye.

Downey is an accomplished, gifted, award-winning character actor, which is more than enough reason to cast him in anything. He's also someone the producers know well and apparently liked to work with. Plenty of film and TV creators have actors they like to work with over and over again, like Sam Raimi using Bruce Campbell in everything or Tim Burton using Johnny Depp in countless things. But Marvel Studios is in the unusual situation of having all their films be in the same universe, so if they want to bring back an actor they like after their character died, it would have to be as a different character in the same universe. Doom is a good choice for that, because his face is rarely seen, and if it were, it would probably be heavily scarred, so the actor's appearance would be a non-issue.

Of course, we can't rule out the possibility that they do intend some connection to Stark. But one should acknowledge every possibility that hasn't been ruled out, and we can't rule out the possibility that it's not about the character but about the actor, his skill and his relationship with the producers. At least, I'll be much happier if Doom isn't connected to Stark.

I'm sorry I brought this back up, I realized what I did after I made the post. I'm going to just drop this conversation, because we've been over this and all that's going to happen is we're just going to in endless circles.

The term "metahuman" is not exclusive to DC. It was popularized by the Wild Cards shared-universe novels and RPG developed by George R.R. Martin in the 1980s, but there are citations for it in fiction in the 1970s and in critical works in the 1960s. It just means someone beyond human, posthuman, or transformed from human, depending on which definition of "meta-" you choose. It actually has been used in a Marvel context from time to time: https://archive.org/details/spidermanamazing0000tobi/page/n49/mode/1up

Oh my mistake, I'd only ever heard in relation to DC characters so I thought it was something they made up just for their stuff.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Yeah, that's true...and she has experience dealing with the Hand.

Damnit, now I'm even more bummed out!

Honestly, I wasn't even thinking about The Hand. I was thinking about Frank Castle and Sheila Rivera. So make that three things from the street level shows in the movie.

 

[Jayson1]

Downey is an accomplished, gifted, award-winning character actor, which is more than enough reason to cast him in anything. He's also someone the producers know well and apparently liked to work with. Plenty of film and TV creators have actors they like to work with over and over again, like Sam Raimi using Bruce Campbell in everything or Tim Burton using Johnny Depp in countless things. But Marvel Studios is in the unusual situation of having all their films be in the same universe, so if they want to bring back an actor they like after their character died, it would have to be as a different character in the same universe. Doom is a good choice for that, because his face is rarely seen, and if it were, it would probably be heavily scarred, so the actor's appearance would be a non-issue.

Of course, we can't rule out the possibility that they do intend some connection to Stark. But one should acknowledge every possibility that hasn't been ruled out, and we can't rule out the possibility that it's not about the character but about the actor, his skill and his relationship with the producers. At least, I'll be much happier if Doom isn't connected to Stark.





The term "metahuman" is not exclusive to DC. It was popularized by the Wild Cards shared-universe novels and RPG developed by George R.R. Martin in the 1980s, but there are citations for it in fiction in the 1970s and in critical works in the 1960s. It just means someone beyond human, posthuman, or transformed from human, depending on which definition of "meta-" you choose. It actually has been used in a Marvel context from time to time: https://archive.org/details/spidermanamazing0000tobi/page/n49/mode/1up

I think the issue isn't that Downey Jr isn't talented but that Stark as Iron Man was iconic and the main reason the MCU even exists. To not make some kind of connection would just seem weird. Like doing a Trek movie with William Shatner and asking the audience to pretend he isn't the same guy who was Captain Kirk.

 

[theenglish]

Strange occupies a, well, strange position in No Way Home, serving variously as the plot's inciting incident, its antagonist, and ultimately its solution. He exists to do whatever the plot needs him to do at whatever moment the plot needs him to do it. He's necessary to the film in a way that I feel Tony isn't in Homecoming -- that story, except the Ferry incident, would work the same without him -- as there's no movie without Strange, and the problem that Strange causes at Peter's request can't be solved without Strange. Peter can fight the villains, but he can't save the world from the multiversal incursion. Only Strange can do that. Which, I think, makes Peter's sacrifice hollow, even false; the only way to stop the incursion was to wipe the memory of Peter, and even though Peter accepts it, Strange would have had to do it even if Peter had said no.

No Way Home is such an arbitrary movie. All fiction is arbitrary, really, but No Way Home is more obviously arbitrary than most, imho.

As much as I enjoyed NWH, I agree with what you are saying here. The plot was written to serve the casting in this, especially when the movie could have played out much closer to the comics and been a better story. Peter's identity has been revealed and an enemy now wants him dead, or at least to hurt him by killing someone he loves. At the end, he has to make the decision to bring back May at the expense of losing MJ.

 

[theenglish]

I just don't see why the Netflix characters have to keep showing up in Spider-Man related stuff. Why not have Daredevil or Claire or anyone else from Netflix show up in a Hawkeye story or Ms Marvel or anywhere else?

In the comics, Spider-Man is usually in the mix with those street levels heroes. Daredevil and The Punisher have famously made appearances in Spider-Man books. For that matter, Spidey has close ties with the FF as well. He and Johnny were close friends and teamed up frequently. I would love to see a Spider-Man/Fantastic Four film in the future. Spidey was the main character of Marvel Team-Up for years.

Luke Cage and Danny Rand both worked with Peter in classic adventures, and Spidey and The Hulk faced off at least a couple of times in the 70s.

Marvel comics were famous for having crossovers across the super-hero line of comics, much more so than DC, which used to restrict crossovers to Team books and titles specifically written for that purpose.

 

[Christopher]

I'm sorry I brought this back up, I realized what I did after I made the post. I'm going to just drop this conversation, because we've been over this and all that's going to happen is we're just going to in endless circles.

Again, my goal is not to argue "I'm right and you're wrong." It's merely to make sure that all possibilities are considered. Doom could be connected to Stark, but he doesn't necessarily have to be, because it's possible to imagine a non-Starky reason why Downey was cast. We won't know what the actual answer is until the film comes out, so until then, both possibilities are on the table. All I'm trying to do is use my imagination to consider alternate possibilities. There's no "going in circles," because there's no opposition or competition intended, merely exploration of the range of possibilities.

 

[camdudetenger2018]

I fully admit, I could be wrong, but I still find it very hard to believe that they didn't cast Rober Downey Jr. as Doctor Doom for a very specific story reason. Even if he technically isn't "Tony Stark", I still find it highly unlikely that we won't see his, and when we do I'm sure the fact that he looks like Tony will be important. There's just way too much drama in the fact that their new big bad looks like one of their biggest heroes for them not to use it somehow.
But I acknowledge that they could surprise and not do this, and I will have no problem admiting I was wrong if they do.

Actually there are no metahumans in the movie, metahumans are a DC thing and these are Marvel movies.

I can almost guarantee you it's a different version, I can't imagine that they would cast the very white Ryan Gosling as the Hispanic Robbie Reyes.

i thought i heard peeps in the mcu movies and mcu tv shows say methahumans

 

[Guy Gardener]

In the comics, Spider-Man is usually in the mix with those street levels heroes. Daredevil and The Punisher have famously made appearances in Spider-Man books. For that matter, Spidey has close ties with the FF as well. He and Johnny were close friends and teamed up frequently. I would love to see a Spider-Man/Fantastic Four film in the future. Spidey was the main character of Marvel Team-Up for years.

Luke Cage and Danny Rand both worked with Peter in classic adventures, and Spidey and The Hulk faced off at least a couple of times in the 70s.

Marvel comics were famous for having crossovers across the super-hero line of comics, much more so than DC, which used to restrict crossovers to Team books and titles specifically written for that purpose.

There's a scene in the 80s cross over Gang War where Daredevil manipulates and uses Spider-Man because Spider-man is a useful idiot and a child that Daredevil can't trust to react like a adult to given facts where lives are on line.

I think Daredevil is in a fat suit, pretending to be Kingpin to force Peter into acting responsibly. Spider-Man eventually figure it out, and spins out.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, because Natasha has never worked for SHIELD in the comics...

But she did get the jumpsuit.

 

[JD]

In the comics, Spider-Man is usually in the mix with those street levels heroes. Daredevil and The Punisher have famously made appearances in Spider-Man books. For that matter, Spidey has close ties with the FF as well. He and Johnny were close friends and teamed up frequently. I would love to see a Spider-Man/Fantastic Four film in the future. Spidey was the main character of Marvel Team-Up for years.

Luke Cage and Danny Rand both worked with Peter in classic adventures, and Spidey and The Hulk faced off at least a couple of times in the 70s.

Marvel comics were famous for having crossovers across the super-hero line of comics, much more so than DC, which used to restrict crossovers to Team books and titles specifically written for that purpose.

The Punisher was introduced in a Spider-Man comic, so he's been connected to Spider-Man all the way back to his very beginnings.

 

[JoeZhang]

I know the MCU is cool with introducing characters that aren't well know, but I doubt the once suggested that Digific Writer suggested are happening. Especially considering the failure that was Madame Web.
She's also definitely not playing Jean Grey.

Spoiler: Massive spoilers

she is Jean Grey