Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Christopher]

This point of view may refer to the original Spider-Man character, but it is not relevant to the Ultimate Universe version that the MCU tends to be based on.

The MCU's depiction of Spidey as a protege of older heroes strikes me as being based more on the past couple of decades of the 616-universe comics than the Ultimate comics. Peter becoming Tony Stark's protege was a big part of the Avengers arc and the Civil War arc in the later J. Michael Straczynski run on Amazing Spider-Man, with Spidey's introduction in the movie version of Civil War deriving from the comics version where his mentor Tony brought him into the registration debate on Tony's side, until Spidey eventually switched sides. Homecoming drew on the earlier comics arc where Tony built the "Iron Spider" armor for Spidey, except it substituted a version of his classic costume in its place. JMS was also fond of teaming Spidey up with Doctor Strange, foreshadowing No Way Home.

 

[Mudd]

Is Sylvie coming back?

Could she, please?

This guy...

 

[theenglish]

The MCU's depiction of Spidey as a protege of older heroes strikes me as being based more on the past couple of decades of the 616-universe comics than the Ultimate comics. Peter becoming Tony Stark's protege was a big part of the Avengers arc and the Civil War arc in the later J. Michael Straczynski run on Amazing Spider-Man, with Spidey's introduction in the movie version of Civil War deriving from the comics version where his mentor Tony brought him into the registration debate on Tony's side, until Spidey eventually switched sides. Homecoming drew on the earlier comics arc where Tony built the "Iron Spider" armor for Spidey, except it substituted a version of his classic costume in its place. JMS was also fond of teaming Spidey up with Doctor Strange, foreshadowing No Way Home

Yes, he did have a close relationship with Tony during that period. I think they (Peter, May, and Mary Jane) also lived in the Avengers HQ for a while, and then Brand New Day happened. You're right in that that is the big arc the movies appear to be following.

(I should add that I read the Civil War series and some of the tie-ins that were available through my library, but most of my Marvel knowledge comes from reading summaries on the internet. It is likely incomplete.)

 

[Nerys Myk]

I don't know. If mutants become a new thing to the world after the earth is changed then it means you could explore regular humans starting to hate mutants like in the comics and see the rise of that hatred growing. Maybe Magneto or one of the other villains does something to make that hatred even worst. This inspires Xavier to open his school and eventually form the first X-Men team.

Yeah, that’s how it always goes. That's the X-Men story. But, that’s not my complaint. The X-Men aren't the Avengers. They aren't a bunch of independent heroes brought together to fight foes no single hero can handle. Like the FF they are unified by a common origin. In the X-Men's case, being mutants. Having a bunch of solo films featuring future X-Men makes about as much sense as having Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Invisible Woman and Human Torch in solos before the FF. I'm not say there can't be some solo X-Men films. Wolverine would be perfect for a solo apart from the X-Men. He got his start outside of the X-Men title.

X-Men traditionally begins In medias res. With the school and it's mission already in place. We are introduced to the school and the team via a new student. In X-Men #1 it was Jean Grey. Kitty. Jubilee and Rogue have all served in this role. Another factor is mutants are a new thing. They are very rare, but now there is an uptick in mutants being born. (Originally blamed on the rise in the use of nuclear energy)/

 

[CorporalCaptain]

This guy...

View attachment 47690

He can come, too!

 

[Nerys Myk]

This guy...

View attachment 47690

Lokidile? Lokigator? Alliloki?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

The announcement of The Punisher's involvement and the rumored involvement of The Hulk in the next MCU Spider-Man movie seems to prove that Sony and Marvel Studios still haven't learned their lesson about not overshadowing Peter in his own movies,

The best of Spider-Man's published life had major guest stars appear, and it did not overshadow him at all--but served the story. That's what great writers can achieve. If the next Spider-Man movie is fortunate enough to have strong writers, they should be able to take full advantage of the Punisher interacting with / going after Spider-Man. It certainly worked to historic degrees in Spider-Man's main comic.

It was a reference to 70s Spider-Man. Both The Punisher and the Hulk appeared in the pages of Spider-Man. The Hulk and Spidey story took place in Canada around the same time Wolverine first appeared in The Incredible Hulk.

Yeah, it was a Spider-Man Annual where the Hulk appeared.
I can't remember the exact details, but I know Peter was in Canada covering a story and he ran into the Hulk and General Ross.

Guys, the Hulk made a few appearances in Spider-Man comics, the 1st dating back to the Ditko era, but the annual DarrenTR1970 is referring to is from the Romita era: The Amazing Spider-Man Annual #5 (11/1966). In the story, "To Become an Avenger!", the Avengers decide to try Spider-Man out as an Avenger with a test--find and capture the Hulk. Spider-Man "fails" when he discovers who is the man behind the monster, and not knowing (read: trusting) the Avengers' motives for wanting the Hulk, Spider-Man pretends he could not find the creature (though one of the Avengers doubts the story). The Canadian Hulk encounter was a separate story--The Amazing Spider-Man #119 - 120 (April - May, 1973), which is probably best remembered for a couple of teases of the monumental event no reader ever imagined would unfold in issue #121.

 

[Mudd]

Lokidile? Lokigator? Alliloki?

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[Awesome Possum]

Lokigator is the best Loki.

 

[Jayson1]

Isn't that essentially the origin of the X-Men. I've read a few years of comics from the early 80s and then some in the mid 00s, and some reprints from the 60s, but other than the lore I don't really have a lot of in depth knowledge about the comics.

It might be. And granted we did sort of already see these done in the rebooted prequels even in the movies. So if they did go this way I do wonder what MCU twist they would add to them. I suppose maybe the big one was those movies were set in the past. Here we would see all these events happening in the present day. We also talking about a world that has already seen alien invasions and people with super powers and even GODS. I suppose the biggest fear they could play up is that people are afraid that regular old humans will soon disappear and all that will be left is mutants. Basically replacement theory stuff with mutants being a metaphor for black and Latino people.

Also one change is instead of just one school at his mansion you would have Xavier wanting to create multiple schools across the globe because I don't think it makes sense that you would have all these mutants in the world and just one single school for them all. His mansion would make sense mostly as just being a headquarters for those who become X-Men. Most of his students would no doubt just want to live normal lives but some of them actually might want to be more than that and become X-Men.

 

[Jayson1]

Yeah, that’s how it always goes. That's the X-Men story. But, that’s not my complaint. The X-Men aren't the Avengers. They aren't a bunch of independent heroes brought together to fight foes no single hero can handle. Like the FF they are unified by a common origin. In the X-Men's case, being mutants. Having a bunch of solo films featuring future X-Men makes about as much sense as having Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Invisible Woman and Human Torch in solos before the FF. I'm not say there can't be some solo X-Men films. Wolverine would be perfect for a solo apart from the X-Men. He got his start outside of the X-Men title.

X-Men traditionally begins In medias res. With the school and it's mission already in place. We are introduced to the school and the team via a new student. In X-Men #1 it was Jean Grey. Kitty. Jubilee and Rogue have all served in this role. Another factor is mutants are a new thing. They are very rare, but now there is an uptick in mutants being born. (Originally blamed on the rise in the use of nuclear energy)/

I think it would actually make sense for some solo films. Especially since lots of solo films are rarely just solo films. You always see multiple characters along the ride as well. I would love a movie, for example,just focused on Xavier and Magneto loosing their powers and going on a road trip to get them back from Cassandra Nova who has somehow stolen them. They can't let most people know they lost their powers because if humans found out their was ways to take their powers they might use it on all mutants.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It might be.

There's no doubt about it. it is the origin of the X-Men.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think it would actually make sense for some solo films. Especially since lots of solo films are rarely just solo films. You always see multiple characters along the ride as well. I would love a movie, for example,just focused on Xavier and Magneto loosing their powers and going on a road trip to get them back from Cassandra Nova who has somehow stolen them. They can't let most people know they lost their powers because if humans found out their was ways to take their powers they might use it on all mutants.

Set up the school and the team first. Then spin them off to solo films.

 

[Jayson1]

Set up the school and the team first. Then spin them off to solo films.

I agree. At least the core team. I think their first solo movie should be Wolverine. I guess Deadpool would also count as a solo X-Men movie sort of. I just know they will do another one. Last movie made to much money to not do another one.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I agree. At least the core team. I think their first solo movie should be Wolverine. I guess Deadpool would also count as a solo X-Men movie sort of. I just know they will do another one. Last movie made to much money to not do another one.

As I mentioned Wolverine should have solo films before, during and after the X-Men films. He began as a solo character not an X-Man.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

Guys, the Hulk made a few appearances in Spider-Man comics, the 1st dating back to the Ditko era, but the annual DarrenTR1970 is referring to is from the Romita era: The Amazing Spider-Man Annual #5 (11/1966). In the story, "To Become an Avenger!", the Avengers decide to try Spider-Man out as an Avenger with a test--find and capture the Hulk. Spider-Man "fails" when he discovers who is the man behind the monster, and not knowing (read: trusting) the Avengers' motives for wanting the Hulk, Spider-Man pretends he could not find the creature (though one of the Avengers doubts the story). The Canadian Hulk encounter was a separate story--The Amazing Spider-Man #119 - 120 (April - May, 1973), which is probably best remembered for a couple of teases of the monumental event no reader ever imagined would unfold in issue #121.

Actually, the one I was talking about was the Amazing Spider-Man #119-120.
It was collected into a Giant Size Annual in the late seventies/early eighties.

 

[theenglish]

The Canadian Hulk encounter was a separate story--The Amazing Spider-Man #119 - 120 (April - May, 1973), which is probably best remembered for a couple of teases of the monumental event no reader ever imagined would unfold in issue #121.

Thanks for that detail. I remember having that Hulk crossover in a collected stories that I got on the discount rack a Zellers. It never dawned on me that it was so close to 121. I remember reading comics that had Gwen Stacy and comics that had Peter regretting her death, but it wasn't until much later that I read it. The Napster age, to be more specific.

 

[theenglish]

I think it would actually make sense for some solo films. Especially since lots of solo films are rarely just solo films. You always see multiple characters along the ride as well.

I think the more likely scenario is to have X-Men turn up in other films, maybe even just in post-credit scenes.

 

[Christopher]

(I should add that I read the Civil War series and some of the tie-ins that were available through my library, but most of my Marvel knowledge comes from reading summaries on the internet. It is likely incomplete.)

The main thing I remember is that JMS's version of Tony Stark in ASM had a much more nuanced motivation for supporting superhero registration than he did in the other Civil War comics. IIRC, JMS's Tony recognized the ethical quagmire and was taking control of the registration process so he could keep its excesses in check, or unmake it from within, or something like that -- somewhat the opposite of how the main series depicted him.

Yeah, that’s how it always goes. That's the X-Men story. But, that’s not my complaint. The X-Men aren't the Avengers. They aren't a bunch of independent heroes brought together to fight foes no single hero can handle. Like the FF they are unified by a common origin. In the X-Men's case, being mutants. Having a bunch of solo films featuring future X-Men makes about as much sense as having Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Invisible Woman and Human Torch in solos before the FF. I'm not say there can't be some solo X-Men films. Wolverine would be perfect for a solo apart from the X-Men. He got his start outside of the X-Men title.

[/QUOTE]

I see your point, but I don't think the analogy quite holds. Yes, in real-life terms, the X-Men were introduced as a team book first. But in-universe, the individual mutants were dealing with their powers alone, sometimes for years, before Xavier brought them to the school. So introducing them as solo characters and bringing them together later wouldn't be that different from their in-story experiences. It would just be different from how the story is traditionally told. And there's nothing wrong with that.

X-Men traditionally begins In medias res. With the school and it's mission already in place. We are introduced to the school and the team via a new student. In X-Men #1 it was Jean Grey. Kitty. Jubilee and Rogue have all served in this role.

Specifically, Jean in the comics, Kitty in the "Pryde of the X-Men" pilot, Jubilee in both the '90s FOX series and the 1996 Generation X pilot movie, both Rogue and Wolverine in the first feature film, and Nightcrawler in the pilot of X-Men Evolution. Also Sunspot to an extent in X-Men '97.