Marvel All New, All Different - Ongoing Discussion (Spoilers)

[Guy Gardener]

Who just got massively pwned by Sunspot.

This Reed Richards is not as smart as he thinks that he is.

Hmmm.

Much younger.

Master Fantastic?

Nooooo...

The Maker has an elongated head for his larger sausage brain, that looks like a huge aubergine.

The Maker stretched his brain so that the smart bits are smarter and the crazy bits are crazier.

The art is not great, but did Reed fix his skull?

Hmmm.

Oh.

His human plus shape, wasn't pretty enough.

Did Reed manscape his skeleton for his lady friend's benefit?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I have no idea. I'm just saying that there is no justification to do it. but, after what they let Spencer do to Captain America, Marvel really can't shock me with stupid moves right now.

I would have hoped that, after it was revealed people were completely overreacting to the Steve Rogers thing (they were categorically wrong when they assumed it was a retcon to say he was always this way and dismissed mind-control as an option), they would wait and see on something like this.

Speaking of stupid, Inhmans vs X-Men just ended. I was liking the event decently, but that ending

Spoiler: Inhumans vs X-Men Ending

Apparently no one told Medusa that the Terrigen cloud was reaching total saturation and was going to kill every mutant on Earth. So, when they told her and then her own people gave her a way to destroy the terrigen, she did it without hesitation. She then basically said she would have done this at the very beginning, without fighting, if the X-Men had just talked to her. To her, while terigenesis is important to Inhumans its not worth the life of even a single mutant, much less all of them.

In the end, it was the X-men's stupidity, lead by Emma Frost being super manipulative (she even takes over Magento's mind and forces Forge to build super inhuman killing sentinels), and Emma being angry that the terrigen killed Cyclops before they knew that would happen that caused the fighting. So, this whole story would have been over about 4 pages into issue #1 if anyone had bothered to talk to Medusa about the terrigen cloud This event is literally the biggest waste of time of any event I've read, and at this point I've read a lot of them. It also made all the X-men (except Beast) come off as idiots.

I don't know why you said "apparently." It's very clear only one person had an opportunity to say anything and he never got a chance to use that opportunity. At no point does anyone else say anything.

On the other hand, the X-Men are reasonable in fearing to tell Medusa. For all they know, Medusa ordered Cyclops killed for trying to destroy the cloud (and that was certainly her intent regardless). While it turned out it would have been the right move, they couldn't have known that.

 

[kirk55555]

Um.

Beast was specifically on site in Atilan to find a cure.

He was working along side Inhuman scientists.

No Prize.

Maximus was making the Inhuman's forget... Even though his powers don't exactly work that way.

White Queen has to Mrs. Robinson young Scott.

(Counting down to his 18th Birthday.)

Yeah, he was. But, Medusa didn't know that the terrigen cloud was reaching full saturation and would kill every mutant on Earth shortly. Even if the cloud had killed some mutants, as far as she knew they had ways to keep mutants away from the cloud. When they told her that the situation had changed and all mutants were going to die, she immediately destroyed the cloud. Terrigen is important to inhumans, and destroying it was a last resort. She was obviously hoping that Beast would fiund a different solution. But he didn't, and when they bothered to tell her that she destroyed the cloud, and said she would have done it earlier if they'd bothered to tell her. So, yeah, the X-Men are idiots for locking Beast up, and several (including Storm) were out of character to do that, especially since half the X-Men thought that Cyclops deserved what he got when they thought Black Bolt had killed him, so its not like many people outside of Emma were resentful of Cyclops's death.

I would have hoped that, after it was revealed people were completely overreacting to the Steve Rogers thing (they were categorically wrong when they assumed it was a retcon to say he was always this way and dismissed mind-control as an option), they would wait and see on something like this.

They didn't overreact. Turning Captain America into a nazi is wrong, period. Spencer didn't help by being a lying asshole and saying it "wasn't brainwashing or mind control". No one believed him, but he didn't win any fans with that. he has then just kept up the Nazi Cap story, and also had some pretty fucked up things in his books (including a rather BS villain in the Sam Wilson book from what I've read). Basically, Spencer is an asshole, Cap never should have been a Nazi, and he honestly deserved more backlash then he got.

I don't know why you said "apparently." It's very clear only one person had an opportunity to say anything and he never got a chance to use that opportunity. At no point does anyone else say anything.

On the other hand, the X-Men are reasonable in fearing to tell Medusa. For all they know, Medusa ordered Cyclops killed for trying to destroy the cloud (and that was certainly her intent regardless). While it turned out it would have been the right move, they couldn't have known that.

They could have told Medusa from the beginning. There was no reason not to talk to her, but they locked up Beast instead. they were morons. It was just another example of character assassination in a Marvel event, like how Civil War II made Captain Marvel an unlikable nutjob by making her go full Minority Report. At this point I generally ignore any "character development" in Marvel's events, since it generally just makes good characters into assholes. Killing Cyclops or not, Storm would have talked to Medusa if the book wasn't written so badly.

 

[JD]

I would have hoped that, after it was revealed people were completely overreacting to the Steve Rogers thing (they were categorically wrong when they assumed it was a retcon to say he was always this way and dismissed mind-control as an option), they would wait and see on something like this.

Yeah, I really didn't think the whole Cap was made a Nazi thing was that bad once I found out the details of what happened. Comics have done plenty of stories of heroes being turned bad over the years and this really isn't any different. It seems pretty clear to me this is just one story, and once it's done, possibly after Secret Empire, then they'll reverse it and Cap's history and loyalties will go back to the way they used to be.
As for the Magneto thing, yeah having him work with Nazis would be pretty bad, but we really don't know enough about his role in SE to make any kind of final judgement.

 

[JD]

IGN's Jesse Schedeen has published a new opinion piece about Marvel publishing to many comics. I have to admit, I've had similar thoughts recently. When I realized they had an solo book for each Guardian of the Galaxy along with the team book, I thought that did seem a bit excessive, and now I realize that they're apparently will be three or four books just about Peter Parker, and on top of that are the other spider characters like Gwen, Miles, and I think I remember seeing an announcement for a post Clone Conspiracy Scarlet Spider book. That's already more books than some smaller publisher put out altogether. I'm not current with my comics, but if I was those would all be books I'd want to read, but I don't know if there's any way I'd be able to keep up with all of them, and the other Marvel characters I like, and DC's output and stuff from other publishers like Dynamite, Dark Horse, Valiant and Image.
With the industry seeming to be struggling already, publishing so many books does seem like kind of an odd choice. I would think it would be smarter to publish a few big books with characters that can really draw in the readers, rather than a million books with much less popular characters.

 

[kirk55555]

IGN's Jesse Schedeen has published a new opinion piece about Marvel publishing to many comics. I have to admit, I've had similar thoughts recently. When I realized they had an solo book for each Guardian of the Galaxy along with the team book, I thought that did seem a bit excessive, and now I realize that they're apparently will be three or four books just about Peter Parker, and on top of that are the other spider characters like Gwen, Miles, and I think I remember seeing an announcement for a post Clone Conspiracy Scarlet Spider book. That's already more books than some smaller publisher put out altogether. I'm not current with my comics, but if I was those would all be books I'd want to read, but I don't know if there's any way I'd be able to keep up with all of them, and the other Marvel characters I like, and DC's output and stuff from other publishers like Dynamite, Dark Horse, Valiant and Image.
With the industry seeming to be struggling already, publishing so many books does seem like kind of an odd choice. I would think it would be smarter to publish a few big books with characters that can really draw in the readers, rather than a million books with much less popular characters.

Well, that just ends up screwing over characters not named Spider-Man, Iron man, Thor, etc. As someone whose favorite heroes are usually B-listers, don't like the idea that only mainstream DC or marvel heroes should get books. Plus, there have been amazing books about lesser known characters that only happened because they were given a chance. Does Marvel have too many books overall? Probably. But a Marvel and/or DC that only publishes the big names are not companies I want to support. We'd never get great stuff like Peter David's X-Factor, Byrne's She-Hulk, Agents of Atlas, Birds of Prey, Gotham City Sirens, etc if DC and marvel didn't try publishing things that weren't just their big few characters.

Now, they should definitely cut down a bit, but I don't want to lose books like Silk or Batwoman just because they could be seen as extensions of Spider-Man or batman, and therefore just "taking up space". Having too much for one person to buy isn't necessarily a bad thing, and both companies have turned out some of their greatest books by giving people who weren't Superman or Spider-Man a chance.

If they only published the big names, they would just be soulless universes and not the companies people have been fans of for decades. They both have casts of characters that deserve books, and they should never stop giving less popular characters chances. What they could do is just publish one Superman/Spider-Man/Batman/etc book, and cut down on the extra (do they really need Bruce Wayne being in 3-5 books a month if you count the JL books?) and still give the Batwoman/She-Hulk/Silk/Nightwing/Zatanna/X-23/etc's their chances to have books.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Oh smeg.

The Orginal X-Men stuck in the present is finally resolved.

Spoiler: Meh?

Beast uses magic to go back, for long enough to see that they never left, or that there are versions of them already still in the past blocking their atempts to return.

1. I don't think that explained where exactly these other Original X-Men came from.

2. Old Cyclops blinked out of existence for a little bit when young Cylops flatlined for 20 seconds, in some comic years ago.

3. Others could have always gone to the past to look around, just because these specific X-men seem to be locked to "present day".

ARGGGGH!

Bendis must have written them going home years away and put in a basement vault at Marvel, why the #### wasn't that good enough? And any way just because there are thems in the past it still could be future thems who resumed their lives before these thems checked in on the past.

"Sigh"

 

[JD]

Well, that just ends up screwing over characters not named Spider-Man, Iron man, Thor, etc. As someone whose favorite heroes are usually B-listers, don't like the idea that only mainstream DC or marvel heroes should get books. Plus, there have been amazing books about lesser known characters that only happened because they were given a chance. Does Marvel have too many books overall? Probably. But a Marvel and/or DC that only publishes the big names are not companies I want to support. We'd never get great stuff like Peter David's X-Factor, Byrne's She-Hulk, Agents of Atlas, Birds of Prey, Gotham City Sirens, etc if DC and marvel didn't try publishing things that weren't just their big few characters.

Now, they should definitely cut down a bit, but I don't want to lose books like Silk or Batwoman just because they could be seen as extensions of Spider-Man or batman, and therefore just "taking up space". Having too much for one person to buy isn't necessarily a bad thing, and both companies have turned out some of their greatest books by giving people who weren't Superman or Spider-Man a chance.

If they only published the big names, they would just be soulless universes and not the companies people have been fans of for decades. They both have casts of characters that deserve books, and they should never stop giving less popular characters chances. What they could do is just publish one Superman/Spider-Man/Batman/etc book, and cut down on the extra (do they really need Bruce Wayne being in 3-5 books a month if you count the JL books?) and still give the Batwoman/She-Hulk/Silk/Nightwing/Zatanna/X-23/etc's their chances to have books.

I actually do agree with you about continuing to give the B-listers and C-listers books, but I also don't think every character needs their own book. Hell right now I've Moon Knight, Hellcat, Mockingbird, and Gotham Academy on my Comixology and Google Play accounts, and I would hate to lose books like those. For me the big thing is devoting a million books to one character, like Spider-Man, or giving giving every member of a team like Guardians their own ongoing solo books. I understand having books about the different Avengers or Justice League members since the whole point of those kinds of books is solo heroes teaming up, but even they tend to have characters who don't have their own solo books.

 

[kirk55555]

I actually do agree with you about continuing to give the B-listers and C-listers books, but I also don't think every character needs their own book. Hell right now I've Moon Knight, Hellcat, Mockingbird, and Gotham Academy on my Comixology and Google Play accounts, and I would hate to lose books like those. For me the big thing is devoting a million books to one character, like Spider-Man, or giving giving every member of a team like Guardians their own ongoing solo books. I understand having books about the different Avengers or Justice League members since the whole point of those kinds of books is solo heroes teaming up, but even they tend to have characters who don't have their own solo books.

I agree about stuff like Guardians. But, I'll say this: Who decides what characters deserve books? you take two different comic fans, have them write a list, and their lists could be drastically different. My list would include probably 90% of the characters owned by DC or Marvel I may not think that Rocket Racoon needs a series, but someone who likes that book might think the same about Silk or She-Hulk. So, I get what you're saying, and in some cases I agree, but I don't think any characters can fairly be disqualified from potentially having a book, especially since I've loved a lot of books people would probably put in that category. In the end, Marvel/DC should be publishing more then one person can buy. That gives them variety, and someone can always catch up in TPB if they really want to. I'd rather they publish a huge amount then lost out on good books just because the characters aren't super popular among mainstream comic fans.

 

[JD]

I don't think there's a problem with them publishing more than one person can buy, but 104 books in one month is a bit excessive. I'd say 30 or 40 or even 52 isn't too bad, but 104 is to many, especially in an era where comic books are struggling as it is.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Not to mention Marvel has much weaker TPB sales outside the direct market compared to DC and Image so a lot of it these extra books are wasted (which explains why so many get cancelled like six issues in).

 

[Guy Gardener]

They want a surprise hit tapping a market previously invisible to them.

Ms. Marvel, yknow?

That book is sooooooooooooooooo good.

 

[kirk55555]

I can't stand Ms. Marvel. i'm glad she exists, and that Marvel Comics has added more diverse heroes, but I just hate her. It all has to do with her personality. The hyperactive, annoying fan cliche has always annoyed me, and I don't think I've read a single comic with her where she didn't bring up her fanfiction or some equally stupid thing. I'm glad Marvel took a chance with her and she's popular, but I just wish she'd stay far away from any comic that isn't hers.

I like the idea behind her, and I like how Marvel took a chance on a character with a background/ethnicity/etc that is very underrepresented in comics. I just wish she wasn't written as one of the most annoying teen heroes Marvel has published (not quite as bad as Little Nova, but still very annoying to read).

 

[Guy Gardener]

Nova changed writers, and now it's shit.

Champions is condescending and awful.

Something happened to Awesome Hulk and it's a turd too as well.

Cosmic basketball, wtf?

My Girlfriend loves Gwenpool for some reason.

 

[kirk55555]

Yeah, I was enjoying Totally Awesome Hulk a lot, but it just went to hell in basically a single issue and hasn't recovered.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Greg Pak is usually a name I trust.

Maybe he's started drinking so hard, that he's outsourcing to his nine year old kid.

An elves and the shoe makers situation?

Greg wakes up in the morning and there's a completed script in his lap top which he assumes that he wrote while drunk and can't remember.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Marvel artist and Indonesian national Ardian Syaf snuck in some controversial political and religious imagery into the artwork of X-Men Gold #1.

Marvel made the following statement...

The mentioned artwork in X-Men Gold #1 was inserted without knowledge behind its reported meanings. These implied references do not reflect the views of the writer, editors or anyone else at Marvel and are in direct opposition of the inclusiveness of Marvel Comics and what the X-Men have stood for since their creation. This artwork will be removed from subsequent printings, digital versions, and trade paperbacks and disciplinary action is being taken.

 

[kirk55555]

Marvel artist and Indonesian national Ardian Syaf snuck in some controversial political and religious imagery into the artwork of X-Men Gold #1.

Marvel made the following statement...

Yeah, that's pretty messed up. I only caught one thing when I was reading it, Colossus's weird shirt text. I just assumed it was some harmless reference I missed. Apparently, its not so harmless. I definitely should have caught the Shadowcat jewlery store thing, but I guess I wasn't looking at the background close enough. I thought the art was serviceable but nothing special. It looks like this guy just, as I saw Kurt Busiek say on twitter, drew himself out of a job.

 

[Mike Farley]

Didn't Al Milgrom get himself fired from Marvel by sneaking in a dig at someone in the background of a book he inked? And that was a guy with YEARS writing, penciling, and editing at Marvel. Syaf just got there.

Wonder if the collected edition will feature tweaked artwork?

 

[Guy Gardener]

The article said Al was upset with Bob Harras getting fired, and that the slurs will be removed from all reprints, digital copies and TPBS.