Well, one such instance that comes to mind is in "The Deadly Years", when the Commodore consistanty refers to Kirk as sir, and defers completely to him. Granted, it was Kirk's ship, but still, a Commodore (or Rear Admiral, Lower Half), wouldn't be that subserviant to a ship's captain.
Make me understand "Ensign" Kim as a "Senior Officer"??
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Well, one such instance that comes to mind is in "The Deadly Years", when the Commodore consistanty refers to Kirk as sir, and defers completely to him. Granted, it was Kirk's ship, but still, a Commodore (or Rear Admiral, Lower Half), wouldn't be that subserviant to a ship's captain.
Well, it would probably depend on the post they hold. On Voyager, Ensign Kim was the Ops Officer. He was definately young for the post, but it was his job. So, as head of Ops, he would be considered a Senior Officer aboard Voyager.
Now, in today's military; whomever is in command of ship, or other vessel, whether it be a Captain on down to a Petty Officer, is in charge of the ship/station on ship. They can only be relieved by someone further up in their chain of command, but so long as they are in command, what they say goes. Even if it was an Admiral they were giving orders to. It'd mean the end of their career probably, but they have the legal right to give orders if the ship was in a dangerous situation.
As for Kim's rank, on a ship that small, it would make better sense to keep officers at their ranks. Some positions on ship allow for advancement to a certain rank before they are blocked from advancing in rank until they are transferred. Like Tuvok. In his role as Second Officer/Tactical Officer of Voyager, he was allowed to be promoted to Lieutenant Commander.
Or, so I understand it anyway. lol...
-Tibbetts
In ST:VI Col. West was played by Rene Auberjonois. Col. West was an advisor to the UFP president and suggested a rescue mission of Capt. Kirk and Dr. McCoy. The scene is cut from the theatrical version and restored to all versions since.
Kim might have been deemed a "senior officer" partially because Janeway was grooming him, but it's generally been my understanding that "senior staff" was a synonym for "alpha shift bridge crew."
I mean, when have we had an episode where the Captain is on a bridge staffed entirely by redshirts because all the "senior staff" happen to be working a different shift that day?
Never, that's when.
[At risk of legitimizing this flippant accusation with genuine argument...]
And what was Chakotay, sliced bread? B'Ellana too? Tuvok was also the first black Vulcan, a role of primary importance, which I think counts for something. That's 3 main characters of 9; granted a minority, but 33% distribution. And I'm not even counting the fact that VOY had a female captain, another first. I don't think that's a token. It may not be an even distribution (show me a place that has one and I'll show you a racist policy). But it's hardly dismissable as tokenism.
Racism is an issue worthy of examination and serious reflection; a lot of people have a legitimate argument of feeling marginalized by majority cultures. Yes. Yes. And not excluding caucasians.
But I'm afraid I don't quite subscribe to the accusation of tokenism. Why is it that being diverse is interpreted as "tokenism", while not being diverse would certainly be labeled racism? Should there be a majority of minorities on the bridge? That, I'm afraid, would also be tokenism and hypocritical, in that the majority culture would be removing itself from the equation, as if from a position of "objective, value-free superiority".
Serving all other cultures except one's own - is also discriminating. It is to be blind to one's own cultural heritage, values and biases. It's as bad as excluding all other cultures.
There is no reason why a majority culture should not represent itself as a majority in its own entertainment. Doing otherwise would be pandering and also discriminating.
If the cast should reflect realistic human distributions, the bridge would probably consist entirely of Chinese and Muslims.
It's not fair to call Trek racist. Not fair at all. This show has done more to promote diversity in the popular culture than any show in TV history which I can recall. It may not be perfect, but it certainly isn't the opposite of what it stands for.
As I've said before, I would not begrudge anyone from any race for wishing to be represented by a main character in a Trek series. But don't expect the show to be anti-caucasian, unless pandering would satisfy you.
I don't think it's worth your effort.
In light of Barack Obama's last (and excellent) major speech, I'd have to say that I balked at Trisk's post...
I didn't catch the speech, Cyke101. I'll check it. I wouldn't want to be interpreted as racially biased, I would like not to be.
Yeah Belar, I just can't help myself sometimes!
Oh, and maybe "Senior Officers" is synonymous with "Bridge Officers & Chief Engineer" (and the Doctor, Kes and Neelix if absolutely necessary).
I wouldn't want to be interpreted as racially biased, I would like not to be.Yeah Belar, I just can't help myself sometimes!
Oh, and maybe "Senior Officers" is synonymous with "Bridge Officers & Chief Engineer" (and the Doctor, Kes and Neelix if absolutely necessary).
I didn't catch the speech, Cyke101. I'll check it.
It's an excellent speech. It's just that, after a post like yours, and after a speech like his, it makes one try to put things into a context. I can't exactly explain *what* to think of your post, but it does make me think twice about something.
No, I don't mean to be vague, but I know it's coming across as such.
Non-Trekkie Trekkie
Captain
At risk of hijacking...
huh? never mind.
huh? never mind.
Non-Trekkie Trekkie
Captain
Just a bit of a joke based on the term "Token". If you don't know who the little dude is in the picture I left, you won't get it.
Hint...He lives in South Park, Colorado and his name is Token.
Yeah the Trek way of Starfleet ranks is screwy when compared to present day naval ranks.
Admiral ranks are Flag Officers
Captain, Commander and Lt Commander are Senior or Line Officers
Lieutenant, Lt JG and Ensign are Junior Officers
As for Harry Kim being called a senior officer; its more about Garrett Wang being a regular than it does with anything else.
And why didnt Kim get a promotion? Simple. Voyager cant have too many Chiefs and too few Indians
Admiral ranks are Flag Officers
Captain, Commander and Lt Commander are Senior or Line Officers
Lieutenant, Lt JG and Ensign are Junior Officers
As for Harry Kim being called a senior officer; its more about Garrett Wang being a regular than it does with anything else.
And why didnt Kim get a promotion? Simple. Voyager cant have too many Chiefs and too few Indians
A junior officer in the US Navy is usually someone who is a first or second tour division officer and is an ensign or LTJG. A senior officer is usually a LT and up. There are exceptions to this, such as Limited Duty Officers and Chief Warrent Officers, who are never referred to as junior officers regardless of rank.
That being said, Trek's rank structure is so screwy that a better definition of senior officer is simply one who's name is in the credits. My favorite would be Chief O'Brien, who, according to the show was some flavor of CPO, yet ran a division full of officers. It had to have been hard to get any work done!
Haha I know!!
I don’t understand why the DS9 writers ‘downgraded’ O’Brien’s status from an officer to a non-com.
Correct me if I’m wrong but when we first see O’Brien in TNG isn’t he a Lt. Jg?
His rank should have been a Lt or Lt. Cmdr at least in DS9, and considering the Trek timeframe between the two shows would make a hell of a lot more sense (they couldn’t have him outrank Worf obviously).
I never liked genius-whiz kid concept they wrote for Wesley Crusher, and thus allowing him to be made Acting Ensign. That stretched reality far too far for me!
To be more specific, Kim was one of the supposedly numerous Ops Officers of the vessel when coming aboard. A couple of hours into the mission, he had become the only surviving Ops Officer, and therefore a department head by default.
Similarly, the Flight Control Department probably lost its best and brightest when Stadi was killed. Tom Paris might have been the highest-ranking surviving specialist in that field, hence another instant department head.
In these exceptional circumstances, I see no major problem in having Kim be a "senior officer" even though fresh out of the Academy. He might well have remained the highest-ranking Ops specialist throughout the seven years, too, senior to his department even if not to the other top officers aboard. It's a separate mystery why Janeway didn't promote Kim in rank to better match his prestigious position, of course...
Because they needed a down-to-earth character. And because TNG "Realm of Fear" specifically needed a familiar character who would be significantly lower in rank than Reg Barclay, so that he could be ordered around by said nervous wreck.
The character played by Colm Meaney wears various pips on his collar during early TNG, including one bright (Ensign) and two bright (Lieutenant). Later on, we also learn that this character is Transporter Chief O'Brien, even though he is seen in other jobs and in different uniforms in the early episodes where the writers hadn't fully invented him yet.
However, to be sure, we never quite learn that this TNG character would be a commissioned officer. There is never direct dialogue to that effect, and indeed there is direct dialogue in "Family" to say that O'Brien is a noncom, no matter what his collar shows. The writers always felt O'Brien should be a lowly "bluecollar" type of character, even if the costuming department sometimes disagreed.
We might just as well say that our imperfect TV sets fooled us, and that O'Brien's collar always had a single dark pip to denote generic NCO rank (until replaced in DS9 by a more specific Senior Chief Petty Officer symbol).
Timo Saloniemi
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