Mad Men

[Dorian Thompson]

Oh believe me, the idea that women owe men sex for doing them a favor turns my stomach. Don't get me wrong. That sense of entitlement on Pete's part rankles me big time, and maybe it's just my take on the character but I honestly think he wasn't threatening the girl. There's a difference between threatening their job and trying to guilt them into something. Pete was drunk, childish, indulging in male chauvinistic entitlement.....but I don't think he was trying to frighten the girl. Pete just doesn't seem like an agressive enough type to do that. I can see Don coercing someone into sex before Pete....if he were angry enough at the woman (example, Bobbi).

I sensed Pete making her feel guilty and obligated, yes, but I can't see him risking trouble with his wife and in the building just to scare the girl into sex. Does that make sense? It's scummy, but not rape. Yes, I agree that this series highlights how powerless women feel. That's why Betty and Joan intrigue me so much.

 

[Chess Piece Face]

Pete didn't rape that girl. The whole point of the scene was that he was a childish, selfish guy who took what he wanted by means of the situation. Not by means of forcible, physical intimidation.

More like, if they worked together, sexual harrasment. Him using his power role in the situation on an underling. That's not rape.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Pete didn't rape that girl. The whole point of the scene was that he was a childish, selfish guy who took what he wanted by means of the situation. Not by means of forcible, physical intimidation.

More like, if they worked together, sexual harrasment. Him using his power role in the situation on an underling. That's not rape.

Exactly.

 

[darthraidr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgvKCfZqxrQ&feature=fvhl

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Sesame Street does Mad Men? Bizarro world.

Ahhhhh, Don Don Don. The dick that keeps on giving. Just when people tell me, "No no no he's really trying to be a good guy" (which I've never bought for a second) he renews my faith in his total scum bagginess. Yes, go ahead and fire Sal for not prostituting himself. Or for thinking he slept with a client when you've done it a million times, Don. You were your usual, highly sensitive self. You people, indeed.

Oh, and that teacher is going to start boiling bunnies and spying on your wife in the market you both share. That's if no one sees your car parked 2 miles from your house. Little miss "I'm so above infidelity" is c-r-a-z-y with a capital "C." She'll get crazy or knocked up.

Betty, Betty, Betty. You're a child but at least you caught a clue before it went too far. Carla is so on to you, my dear.

How funny was it when Pete was hacking up a lung the entire time they were shooting the Lucky Strike commercial?

 

[exodus]

Sesame Street does Mad Men? Bizarro world.

Ahhhhh, Don Don Don. The dick that keeps on giving. Just when people tell me, "No no no he's really trying to be a good guy" (which I've never bought for a second) he renews my faith in his total scum bagginess. Yes, go ahead and fire Sal for not prostituting himself. Or for thinking he slept with a client when you've done it a million times, Don. You were your usual, highly sensitive self. You people, indeed.

Betty, Betty, Betty. You're a child but at least you caught a clue before it went too far. Carla is so on to you, my dear.

Don didn't fire Sal, Rodger Sterling did.
However, Don's knows Sal is gay and aware Sal probably would have fooled around with the guy if Sal wasn't in denial about what he is. Hell, even Sal's wife figured it out. So yes, that's how allot of companies kept clients back in the day. By giving them what they wanted, even if it's sex. Come on, don't tell me you've never heard about companies bringing potental clients to strip bars to earn their accounts. That still happens in some companies today.

It's a sign of the times, as the school teacher pointed out. Most men during that time cheated. It was almost expected.

Betty already went to far. She kissed and was looking forward to an affair with a man that wasn't her husband. Even a kiss is going too far. Betty is a tease and confused. Why go all the way to the man's office angry he stood you up, kiss him again only to break it off? Betty like Don, is no saint. She still looking for a reason to cheat.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Betty would have to cheat 500 times before she got even with Don. What Betty wanted was to have a man attracted to her, to love her. She wanted to call the shots, but she wanted attention and courtly love more than actual sex. Don doesn't really give a shit about her and she knows it.

 

[Snaploud]

How funny was it when Pete was hacking up a lung the entire time they were shooting the Lucky Strike commercial?

Definitely a highlight of the episode...

What Betty wanted was to have a man attracted to her, to love her. She wanted to call the shots, but she wanted attention and courtly love more than actual sex. Don doesn't really give a shit about her and she knows it.

I think she also wanted to get a man worked up and then tell him "no." She wants control just as much as Don, but she never gets the opportunity.

 

[sidious618]

Betty is a small child in a grown woman's body. It's not her fault, not really, we saw her father and her mother was horrible as well and then she got stuck with Don. I feel for her.

 

[Snaploud]

Betty is a small child in a grown woman's body. It's not her fault, not really, we saw her father and her mother was horrible as well and then she got stuck with Don. I feel for her.

Betty really has nothing to do with her life. The maid takes care of the kids. She has no job.

Her recent political effort had to do with saving a reservoir with possibly unhealthy water (nice one, Mrs. Draper). Obviously, she has no idea what to do with herself.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

I really feel for Betty. She was obviously infantilized by her parents and taught that if she was the most beautiful girl and didn't "get stout" that prince charming would come along and adore her and she'd have a wonderful life. Her own father admitted he never pushed her or encouraged her that she could accomplish anything and that she paid the price by marrying Don. Betty has paid the price. She's beautiful, she gave him children; she plays the perfect hostess and wife when he has to impress clients, yet he constantly cheats on her, lies to her, keeps things in locked drawers and he doesn't love her. In her mind, she's done everything she was supposed to do--why isn't she loved? Betty has no idea how to be an adult. No one taught her. She's a woman who would have been much happier as a buyer living in uptown Manhattan working for a high scale department store, or as an actress or model traveling the world. Betty was sold on the ideal that life in the suburbs, married to a successful man, with 2.4 children was the goal she should have. Betty shouldn't have had children (or maybe waited until she'd done everything else she wanted in her life to have a child) or gotten married and moved to the quiet suburbs. Had she been born in 1952 instead of 1932, she'd have grown up learning a different message, that women had options. There's nothing wrong with living in the suburbs and having lots of kids if it's what you really want--but it isn't what Betty really wants. Ironically, the only time Don seems attracted to her is when she steps out of the suburban mom role (Rome and her brief modeling stint during season one).

Unfortunately, Betty's problems are compounded by the fact that Don is a really lousy husband. He wanted the perfect image of a wife, one that a poor whore child from backwoods Pennsylvania could never get in his wildest dreams. Don is such a wonderful provider, though, that Betty is supposed to be satisfied by the standards of the time. What have you got to complain about Mrs. Draper? Don's so charming and he earns such a good living. Sure he's a complete bastard, but he's a nice man a good catch, right? Right.

Couldn't Betty have her marriage annulled if she ever found out the truth? Don Draper isn't Don. It's not a legal marriage. It can't be.

I think she also wanted to get a man worked up and then tell him "no." She wants control just as much as Don, but she never gets the opportunity.

Bingo. Betty has no real power. It's what she wants, but she doesn't think she can survive as a single mom. Realistically, Betty couldn't handle three kids on her own and she's scene how divorced women are viewed a la Helen Bishop. Don earns the money, he keeps her in the dark, he runs off to California to lay 19 year olds whenever he wants, and so on and so forth. Now Betty's further tied to him with infant Eugene. These two wouldn't be together if she hadn't gotten pregnant thanks to their one romp on the floor at her father's house. She took control that one time because she felt a physical need and ended up pregnant by Don a third time. Abortion isn't legal.

 

[exodus]

Betty would have to cheat 500 times before she got even with Don. What Betty wanted was to have a man attracted to her, to love her. She wanted to call the shots, but she wanted attention and courtly love more than actual sex. Don doesn't really give a shit about her and she knows it.

Sorry but bullshit.
Cheating once or 10x, it's still the same. Once trust is broken, no matter how, is never easy to retain. I'm pretty sure when it comes to cheating, nobody keeps score.

If Don didn't give a shit he wouldn't be providing for her.
Just because she isn't fullfilling his sexual desires, doesn't mean he doesn't care. Any relationship is far more complex than what you're giving credit for. Don has given Betty everything she wants, just like him it isn't enough. During their time people often married for financial stability rather than love. Both Betty & Don's life are based on status, that's the American dream is it not?

Have you taken into account most of Betty & Don's friends are just like them. They're all examples of the sign of the times.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Love and marriage is more than a paycheck. Don's got a sociopathic personality. I can see him getting violent, or at least threatening it, with his new mistress when she starts to talk to his wife in the supermarket, boil bunnies, and even worse, make demands on him. That teacher has crazy possessive written all over her. She's a loon in hiding.

Don would have abandoned Betty and the kids in a heartbeat if Rachel had said yes to leaving with him when he wanted to run.

 

[exodus]

Love and marriage is more than a paycheck. Don's got a sociopathic personality. I can see him getting violent, or at least threatening it, with his new mistress when she starts to talk to his wife in the supermarket, boil bunnies, and even worse, make demands on him. That teacher has crazy possessive written all over her. She's a loon in hiding.

Sorry, I think you're getting a little carried away.
For people raised like Betty, love is a paycheck.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Obviously a paycheck is not enough, or Betty wouldn't be so depressed.

Me carried away? You don't see the Russian who called the house to talk to Tony Soprano's wife all over this? This is gonna blow up in Don's face. The guy is capable of getting rough if this woman intrudes on his personal life and makes him feel cornered. We've seen how sweet and loving Don is when he feels cornered.

 

[exodus]

Me carried away? You don't see the Russian who called the house to talk to Tony Soprano's wife all over this?

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Don's going to explode when this kooky teacher starts infringing on his life. Speaking to Betty in the supermarket or what have you. Tony Soprano's mistress drove his wife home from a car dealership. He had a friend pay her a visit to dissuade her from speaking to his wife again.

Don's capable of violence if he's cornered enough. At least of threatening it. I'm convinced of that. He's a dark character. That temper of his is scary.

 

[exodus]

Don's going to explode when this kooky teacher starts infringing on his life. Speaking to Betty in the supermarket or what have you. Tony Soprano's mistress drove his wife home from a car dealership. He had a friend pay her a visit to dissuade her from speaking to his wife again.

Don's capable of violence if he's cornered enough. At least of threatening it. I'm convinced of that. He's a dark character. That temper of his is scary.

Seriously, you're comparing Don to a gangster?

 

[Dorian Thompson]

I'm comparing Don's temper to that of a gangster if he feels threatened enough, yes. The teacher isn't a man, a co-worker with equal power to Don. She's a broad he's banging. He won't allow an affair to mess up his life. Don's not a nice person. You think he wouldn't beat the shit out of a woman if she dared to speak to his wife at the supermarket or threatened to tell? This is Don, the man who was so cold he turned his baby brother away thinking a suitcase full of money would solve things.

 

[darthraidr]

??? did i miss a bunch of episodes? i never got a crazy vibe from the teacher, or a stalker vibe from the teacher... don was stalking her, as best i can recall...

i also think don is more bark than bite... if truly confronted with a real problem, he'd run, not fight. but maybe i'm forgetting some episode where he does hold his ground and fight.