Mad Men

[thedude]

The one thing I'm really looking forward to is how they're going to handle the Kennedy assassination... I believe this third season takes place in 1963, and that did happen on Nov. 22. It will be interesting to see how each character takes it and how it shakes up things around Sterling/Cooper or whatever the hell it's call now that the brit's took over, rather merged.

I still really enjoy the program, but I will admit it has slowed down just a bit for me. I watched the first two seasons in an evening and a morning one weekend, right before season 3 started. It was much easier to breeze through some episodes on pins and needles in those first two seasons than it has been lately. However, with the new baby at home and Betty's dad out of the picture, I think Don is going to slip back into his old ways. And isn't that what the show is supposed to be about? His fall from grace? At least that's what I always thought, especially given the whole opening title sequence.

Also, it'll be interesting to see how the Peggy/Pete thing plays out, and whether or not he takes responsibility with the child... clearly he's not happy in his marriage... I guess we'll see.

 

[AstroSmurf]

I love "Mad Men". I just can't get enough. The clothes, the characters, the social and political aspects... all of it just really gets me going. Ever episode is like watching a window into another time. It has a much more tangible quality than a simple period piece or docu-drama. And afterwords, I almost feel like I have been visiting with friends rather than watching a tv show. I guess you might could say I am in love.

But I have to agree that this season is moving a little more slowly in terms of plot and story than the first two seasons. It doesn't bother me and I wouldn't really call it slow. I would call it a "slow burn". I think we are being set-up for something, maybe something huge. We may not have noticed but there are a lot of balls in the air at the moment and I am curious to where they are going to land.

And I could go on for hours about the characters and the richly detailed episodes but I won't. I would rather not bore everyone to tears. (But I love what Dorian Thompson said about Betty and her journey to the nursery. Most people probably didn't notice the amazing details in that tiny innocuous scene. It spoke volumes more than any other scene in the episode. My heart went out to her... and I dislike Betty so it must have been powerful.)

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Oh yes. Betty broke my heart. She's obviously so unhappy. That's why she's so angry all the time now; it's depression. The one time she took what she wanted to have sex with Don when they were at her father's, she got pregnant. She'd already told him to leave, but Betty wasn't raised thinking she was capable of being a single mother.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

God almighty, I can't believe they had Lois sever that guy's foot with the riding lawnmower in the office. That was Tarantino gruesome. The Brits sure are cold, kick him to the curb bastards.

I knew that was Conrad Hilton. They wouldn't have just thrown in born in Artesia, New Mexico in 1887 for no reason.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Yay, something finally happened! Too bad a nice Brit lost his foot instead of one of the assholes, but that would be far too obvious, right?

When the secretary started riding the tractor I seriously thought she'd end up going thru a plate glass window. That's what this show needs, more Tarantino and/or David Lynch.

Okay seriously, next season they need to start seriously developing these characters because watching a bunch of people stuck in neutral year after year is not entertaining. Forget the pot, someone needs to bring LSD into the office asap.

 

[Agent Richard07]

And isn't that what the show is supposed to be about? His fall from grace? At least that's what I always thought, especially given the whole opening title sequence.

I've been thinking about the title sequence lately. I wonder if it's prophetic. Maybe the show ends with Don's life falling apart and him jumping to his death with everything he's been about flashing before his (and the audience's) eyes.

 

[Kelso]

I have always assumed that the intro was representative of Don daydreaming about jumping out the window.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I thought the title sequence was representative of his repressed inner fears - that everything is collapsing around him at all times. Remember, it starts with the objects in his office collapsing/falling - so it's not so literal as him jumping out the window.

 

[Agent Richard07]

I have always assumed that the intro was representative of Don daydreaming about jumping out the window.

Was there a scene like that on the show? I don't remember.

I thought the title sequence was representative of his repressed inner fears - that everything is collapsing around him at all times. Remember, it starts with the objects in his office collapsing/falling - so it's not so literal as him jumping out the window.

His office falling apart may be symbolic of his life, but him walking into the office and the subsequent fall could be literal. One reason I thought that was because we've already seen a rear view of him sitting on a couch with his arm resting on the back just like at the end of the credits, and I thought they might do the same thing with the fall at some point.

Just a thought.

 

[thedude]

Sunday's episode was probably the best of the season so far. I knew something was doing to happen with that Deere mower... I was actually laughing hysterically when that happened and they cut to the scene with the three covered in blood... just hilarious. Or maybe I have issues.

I think the season is really starting to stack up nicely now. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few episodes and what happens with Joan staying or leaving.

As far the credits, I said above that the show has always been a story of Don's fall from grace, and that sort of symbolizes it. Not just Don though, Madison Avenue's fall from grace as far as 60's avertising.

 

[Top41]

I missed last week's episode (I have it on TiVO and need to watch it ), but I caught last night's. Wow... what's everyone's take on Pete now? I have to say, before I kind of liked him in spite of himself, and felt bad for him, but what he did to that au pair was pretty unforgivable. And the way the other guy handled it... like they were talking about the most casual transgression. Totally and completely slimy.

Say what you will about Don, but I don't see him committing rape. One thing I find interesting about Don's transgressions is that he's usually the pursued. There's something passive about him, at least in the beginning--it takes a lot to get him roused, but when someone reaches that part of him (like Bobbie did last season), then he's a tiger. I haven't seen the first season yet, though, so I could be off on that--just an observation from seasons two and three (so far).

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Rape? Pete didn't commit rape. Scuzzy, yes. Not nice, yes. Rape? No. Don did shove his fingers up Bobbi's vagina in the restaurant without invitation when he was angry at her for saying Jimmy wouldn't apologize. That might be considered 4th degree sexual assault. The men on this show aren't depicted in a positive light all the way around, Pete included. If the women were depicted so negatively, Matt Weiner would be accused of sexism and misogyny.

 

[sidious618]

I haven't seen last night's yet but I can't agree with the complaints about this season. I've been enjoying it a hell of a lot.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Wow... what's everyone's take on Pete now?

Eeeeyuck.

How can anyone have issues with Don compared with Pete? I always knew Pete was a sleaze but he's at a whole new level now. Don is just sad and repressed.

Rape? Pete didn't commit rape. Scuzzy, yes. Not nice, yes. Rape? No.

He's a rapist. Definitely. Eeeeyuck.

Say what you will about Don, but I don't see him committing rape.

No kidding. The difference between Pete and Don is that Don wouldn't lower himself to that degree. Pete has got such intense self-worth issues that there is no bottom limit to his depravity.

Not that I object to any of this. Interesting stuff. At least it isn't putting me to sleep anymore. Keep it up, show. Get worse.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Don wouldn't lower himself to that degree? He forcibly shoved his fingers up Bobbi's twat in the restaurant when he was pissed. That was a pretty gross display. He left her tied to a bed. There's plenty of depravity going around. The only reason people like Don is that he's wrapped in a prettier package than Pete. He's done plenty of horrible things from day one. He's a cruel man. He's no better than Pete. Only slicker, and more socially at ease.

And Pete didn't rape the girl. Not unless he threatened her job. Scuzzy behavior, yes. Fit the definition of rape? No. All she had to do was close the door and not let him in. Or say no. Say "I'll tell your wife." She put her arms around him. She wasn't some powerless little thing.

 

[darthraidr]

my take on pete... same as before... this wasnt some surprising development... maybe if you missed all of his interactions with Zoey Bartlet (can't remember the character's name) you might be surprised... actually, i was surprised that he told his wife (it's more than Don would do).

the highlight of the episode was January Jones with her crazy, awesome hair.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

January Jones is the reincarnation of Grace Kelly.

 

[Top41]

Rape? Pete didn't commit rape. Scuzzy, yes. Not nice, yes. Rape? No.

Really? Because what happened with that girl really, really felt like rape to me.

Don did shove his fingers up Bobbi's vagina in the restaurant without invitation when he was angry at her for saying Jimmy wouldn't apologize. That might be considered 4th degree sexual assault.

I forgot about that. Not that it excuses it, but those two had something of a rough relationship. There was a lot of darkness there, on both their parts.

The men on this show aren't depicted in a positive light all the way around, Pete included. If the women were depicted so negatively, Matt Weiner would be accused of sexism and misogyny.

No, they're definitely not. I'm trying to think of a guy on this show that I really like and I'm coming up empty.

Wow... what's everyone's take on Pete now?

Eeeeyuck.

How can anyone have issues with Don compared with Pete? I always knew Pete was a sleaze but he's at a whole new level now. Don is just sad and repressed.

Rape? Pete didn't commit rape. Scuzzy, yes. Not nice, yes. Rape? No.

He's a rapist. Definitely. Eeeeyuck.

Say what you will about Don, but I don't see him committing rape.

No kidding. The difference between Pete and Don is that Don wouldn't lower himself to that degree. Pete has got such intense self-worth issues that there is no bottom limit to his depravity.

Not that I object to any of this. Interesting stuff. At least it isn't putting me to sleep anymore. Keep it up, show. Get worse.

LOL, yeah, it is definitely picking up now. That's kind of how the show goes... it starts off slow and really picks up steam as the season rolls on.

And Pete didn't rape the girl. Not unless he threatened her job. Scuzzy behavior, yes. Fit the definition of rape? No. All she had to do was close the door and not let him in. Or say no. Say "I'll tell your wife." She put her arms around him. She wasn't some powerless little thing.

I absolutely have to disagree here. She may not have used the word no when he came by, but she clearly was afraid for her job when he first encountered her, so there was a degree of powerlessness there. And when he asked her out to dinner, she did say no, that she had a boyfriend. Then he came back. Her body language said to me that she felt trapped and like she didn't have a choice. And she obviously wasn't happy about it afterwards. All that adds up pretty clearly to rape IMO.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Granted, it's a very fine line. I wasn't thrilled with Pete's behavior by any means, but I just don't think it crosses that line. All she had to do was close the apartment door and not let him in. He wasn't physically menacing her. She couldn't be sure he'd say anything. He never said he would or implied as such. Was she truly that powerless? Women are powerless to that degree? I don't think a DA could make the case, not even today. "I was afraid he might say something" is a valid legal case for coercion? I don't think that would work. A debatable subject that will inspire discussion to be sure.

 

[Top41]

Granted, it's a very fine line. I wasn't thrilled with Pete's behavior by any means, but I just don't think it crosses that line. All she had to do was close the apartment door and not let him in. He wasn't physically menacing her. She couldn't be sure he'd say anything. He never said he would or implied as such. Was she truly that powerless? Women are powerless to that degree? I don't think a DA could make the case, not even today. "I was afraid he might say something" is a valid legal case for coercion? I don't think that would work. A debatable subject that will inspire discussion to be sure.

I hear you, and I agree there's grey area. And maybe that's what I'm reacting to--a gut instinct that it was rape. She'd put him off before, she'd said she had a boyfriend, he was implying she owed him. Afterwards she felt awful enough about it that she said something to her boss about it.

And isn't a major theme of this show about how powerless women feel and to some extent were back then? Betty doesn't feel powerful enough to leave her unhappy marriage despite the fact that she's clearly deeply depressed. Joan gets a little bit of intellectual responsibility at work only to have it snatched away from her (the scripts in season two). Then she goes on to marry the scumbag doctor who rapes her because she thinks he'll provide her with a good life.

Peggy would probably be the exception to this--the proof of what a woman can accomplish if she's willing to forgo traditional comforts/roles. But most women weren't willing to do what Peggy's done. And it's not surprising--it's obviously not been easy for Peggy. She's really smart, but she's also really, really tough.