One can be highly evolved and still starve to death. All it takes is a lack of food. Whatever else the salt vampires ate, salt was a primary staple of their diet, to the point that without it, they died off. The question becomes, what made the salt disappear? And why?
M-113 Creature/"Salt Vampire" in "The Man Trap"
- Thread starter t_smitts
- Start date
Let's remember that the creature never actually craved salt as such. When offered some, it ignored it, instead choosing to kill people for their salt.
Is that proof that it was a dumb animal, incapable of shedding a behavior pattern even when this cost it its life? Or proof that it was a sapient being, capable of ignoring the temptations of the moment in pursuit of a higher goal?
Regardless of that distinction, was it a typical example of its species, or instead a deranged one (a man-eating tiger in the first analogy, a murderous maniac in the second)?
The very biology of the creature suggests that sucking live things for their salt would have been normal for the species. Is this compatible with city-building? Well, perhaps not if the vampires felt the need to suck each other for salt, to lethal effect - but that much was never established. For them, getting sucked might be harmless; or then they had better things to suck than fellow citizens. So there's one niche for the sapient interpretation of them.
Another is a competing species that threatens the city-builders and perhaps ultimately destroys them. Possibly native to the planet, possibly arriving from outer space. But would peaceful coexistence with the putative city-building species be possible, too? The fact that "Nancy" in its desperation still failed to kill Crater for a year or so might support the idea.
We really don't need to know, though. Whatever the true nature of the creature, its most important characteristic was that it gave each and every people exactly what they wanted (plus a painful death, of course). So in-universe, every explanation would be supported by the only surviving piece of evidence, the creature itself! Crater's take on it would be equally valid to Kirk's, and neither could be considered objective.
Timo Saloniemi
Is that proof that it was a dumb animal, incapable of shedding a behavior pattern even when this cost it its life? Or proof that it was a sapient being, capable of ignoring the temptations of the moment in pursuit of a higher goal?
Regardless of that distinction, was it a typical example of its species, or instead a deranged one (a man-eating tiger in the first analogy, a murderous maniac in the second)?
The very biology of the creature suggests that sucking live things for their salt would have been normal for the species. Is this compatible with city-building? Well, perhaps not if the vampires felt the need to suck each other for salt, to lethal effect - but that much was never established. For them, getting sucked might be harmless; or then they had better things to suck than fellow citizens. So there's one niche for the sapient interpretation of them.
Another is a competing species that threatens the city-builders and perhaps ultimately destroys them. Possibly native to the planet, possibly arriving from outer space. But would peaceful coexistence with the putative city-building species be possible, too? The fact that "Nancy" in its desperation still failed to kill Crater for a year or so might support the idea.
We really don't need to know, though. Whatever the true nature of the creature, its most important characteristic was that it gave each and every people exactly what they wanted (plus a painful death, of course). So in-universe, every explanation would be supported by the only surviving piece of evidence, the creature itself! Crater's take on it would be equally valid to Kirk's, and neither could be considered objective.
Timo Saloniemi
Regarding the actress who was inside the costume -- is it possible Sharon Gimpel and Sandra Lee Gimpel are the same person? Their ages would be compatible. Sandra Lee Gimpel's earliest acting credit is 1966. She is 5' 1", which would make her the right size to get into the costume. I can't really tell by comparing the photos--right off I want to say they are not, but...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0319831/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0319831/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
Timo, you need to re-watch the scene. The creature grabs as much of the salt out of Spock's hand as it can get and wolfs it down before attacking Kirk. By this time it's starving, and needs a massive influx of salt to sustain itself. By no means does it reject the salt it's offered. Rather, it takes it all, and then tries to get more by whatever means it wants.
What I mean is that starship resupply was supposed to provide Crater with enough salt to keep "Nancy" happy - but the creature instead murdered a lot of people, precluding the resupply. That would seem to indicate lack of longterm planning ability (if the creature could fathom the resupply concept, it should realize raiding the ship wouldn't mean access to a cornucopia of salt, just one big dose and that's it), or then capacity for very intricate long term planning (a starship could get it elsewhere), difficult to tell which.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Bjo Trimble got access to many early call sheets for the "Star Trek Concordance". Is that where Sharon's participation was first identified? (I don't have access to my editions at the moment.)
A Salt Vampire mask was prepared for Bad Robot's 2009 movie, but went unused. Scroll down at http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/M-113_creature
Memory Beta says, of the "Star Trek Online" mission "Mine Trap": "In 2409, after a series of mysterious deaths at the Romulan mining colony on Hfihar, creatures similar to the M-113 creature were sighted in large numbers on the planet. A combined force of Starfleet and Klingon officers were able to hold them at bay long enough for the civilian population of the colony to be evacuated to safety.Scientists observing the attacks noted that the original M-113 creature would not have been able to sustain itself on Romulan copper-based blood, and speculated that the Hfihar creatures had been genetically engineered as a weapon for use against Vulcanoid beings. Some also speculated that the appearance of the creatures had some connection to the Tal Shiar base known to exist in the system.It was unclear if the Hfihar creatures posessed the same intelligence as the original M-113 species."
My 2011 retro Mego-style Salt Vampire:
Salt Vampire by Ian McLean, on Flickr
A Salt Vampire mask was prepared for Bad Robot's 2009 movie, but went unused. Scroll down at http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/M-113_creature
Memory Beta says, of the "Star Trek Online" mission "Mine Trap": "In 2409, after a series of mysterious deaths at the Romulan mining colony on Hfihar, creatures similar to the M-113 creature were sighted in large numbers on the planet. A combined force of Starfleet and Klingon officers were able to hold them at bay long enough for the civilian population of the colony to be evacuated to safety.Scientists observing the attacks noted that the original M-113 creature would not have been able to sustain itself on Romulan copper-based blood, and speculated that the Hfihar creatures had been genetically engineered as a weapon for use against Vulcanoid beings. Some also speculated that the appearance of the creatures had some connection to the Tal Shiar base known to exist in the system.It was unclear if the Hfihar creatures posessed the same intelligence as the original M-113 species."
My 2011 retro Mego-style Salt Vampire:
Salt Vampire by Ian McLean, on Flickr
https://www.facebook.com/Rittenhous...2496023893/996655563706244/?type=3&permPage=1
This "Rittenhouse Archives" has apparently spoken to Sandra Gimpel herself that suggests her being in the M-113 suit, as well as playing a Talosian in The Cage. Might not be true but I don't really see a reason to doubt it.
This "Rittenhouse Archives" has apparently spoken to Sandra Gimpel herself that suggests her being in the M-113 suit, as well as playing a Talosian in The Cage. Might not be true but I don't really see a reason to doubt it.
Interestingly, Sandra (aka Sandy), a known dancer and stunt woman, is happily signing Rittenhouse cards of the Salt Vampire. So she is "Sharon"? Here's an article that discusses her first work on TV, but not mentioning "The Cage" or "The Man Trap".
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1116/p12s03-almo.html
I'd say the creatures led a civilized life on M113 and maybe fed on livestock farmed like cattle for their salt supply but maybe a planet wide calamity struck the planet and killed most of them off making them revert to their basest needs. Or they could have been the aggressors to the people who built the cities! Guess we'll never know!
JB
JB
True.
Which sort of brings up an interesting question. Why didn't it kill McCoy when given the easy chance to do so, in his quarters? It had to be able to get to Crater, to silence him, as it surmised would be the case when Spock and Kirk finally subdued him. The crew wouldn't be searching for McCoy during their lockdown, so there would be no purpose for that reason. Did the creature feel that it was likely McCoy could still provide any protection afterwards? It would seem improbable, and certainly not for very long. Why not simply eliminate the connection and continue for as long as possible taking over identities as it killed?
Another point of interest. Even at this initial introduction, one might wonder if Spock as science officer would suggest attempting to stun the creature rather than just killing it. Addressed obliquely in Memory Alpha, as a concern in the original script, but not answered directly as to why it was rejected as a consideration, I would suppose that Roddenberry might have though that such a half measure taken in an early episode, whether first broadcast or not, would not redound to a sense that the audience might expect for such lethal action being taken against an existential threat. Later, of course, we'll see Spock's desire to do something to save Korob and Sylvia in Catspaw.
We might theorize about the feeding interval of the creature, taking into consideration the fact that it had apparently managed to survive without eating Crater or any other humanoid for a full year. Now it had fed on Darnell and Crater - its conflicting impulses might have included newly awakened bloodlust and newly satisfied hunger. So it would strive to secure a further kill by clinging onto McCoy, but also to hold back because it was already fed.
Or then there might be something to its speech at the briefing room - it really needing something akin to love. Perhaps Kirk's words got through to Crater, the scientist turned against the creature and for that reason had to die, and its best remaining hope for companionship was McCoy.
In any case, it's delightful that an episode often derided as straightforward actually poses so many questions...
Timo Saloniemi
Or then there might be something to its speech at the briefing room - it really needing something akin to love. Perhaps Kirk's words got through to Crater, the scientist turned against the creature and for that reason had to die, and its best remaining hope for companionship was McCoy.
In any case, it's delightful that an episode often derided as straightforward actually poses so many questions...
Timo Saloniemi
Possibly, but Crater had done nothing but sustain the creature's ability to continue on for a long time, well before Enterprise arrived. He clearly stated that he could identify it, but wouldn't. His faithfulness to it seemed to be unquestioned to the end, but the creature knew that he couldn't keep his secret under the duress available aboard ship, so their extended attachment aside, Crater had to go. Besides, as pressed as the creature was to survive at this point, I doubt establishing a new beau was at the top of its priorities.
One wonders if finding a beau wouldn't be crucial to the animal's survival strategy - it does appear to cling to Crater almost parasitically.
The motivations of the creature depend on its level of sapience. It can create a conversation in Swahili without knowing any Swahili - does it follow that it can do this without knowing any conversation, either? If driven solely by instinct, it would probably behave consistently with its past antics, even in a new environment where such conservatism would be inappropriate; finding a new lover might seem to it like a smart thing to do, and being hunted might not even particularly register.
But if capable of abstract thought, and grasping the complex concepts of starships, supply runs and the interstellar community, it might wish to study McCoy in detail, then kill and replace him, as being McCoy would be its best bet of fooling the rest of the crew until next planetfall. After all, if the enemy tolerates imperfect mimicry, i.e. eccentricity, from one of their own, that'd be McCoy...
Timo Saloniemi
The motivations of the creature depend on its level of sapience. It can create a conversation in Swahili without knowing any Swahili - does it follow that it can do this without knowing any conversation, either? If driven solely by instinct, it would probably behave consistently with its past antics, even in a new environment where such conservatism would be inappropriate; finding a new lover might seem to it like a smart thing to do, and being hunted might not even particularly register.
But if capable of abstract thought, and grasping the complex concepts of starships, supply runs and the interstellar community, it might wish to study McCoy in detail, then kill and replace him, as being McCoy would be its best bet of fooling the rest of the crew until next planetfall. After all, if the enemy tolerates imperfect mimicry, i.e. eccentricity, from one of their own, that'd be McCoy...
Timo Saloniemi
Did the creature really change into other identities or was it just able to convince it's victims that it looked like whomever they wanted at that given time? That way it wouldn't need to know Swahili or any other language as the victim's own mind would give it that ability!
JB
JB
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