Luke Skywalker's Character Problem in Star Wars The Last Jedi

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by Sci-fi fan, Jul 30, 2019.

  1. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

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    The fact of the matter is that the film business is unique in being able to offer a product that you don't know whether you'll like until AFTER you've spent your money on a ticket, and NO REFUNDS.

    So you can't go solely on box office. The whole reason Hollywood has become almost nothing but franchises is because of the above. Until the ticket-buying public are burned enough times in a row they will have faith that it will be worth their while to see a movie in a particular franchise.

    That is the reason The Last Jedi made the money it did and a big factor why Solo bombed (even Ron Howard concedes that Solo was impacted by TLJ backlash). Box office is almost completely front-loaded into the opening weekend. If the movie sucks, word of mouth spreads and the proceeds tank. So it's all about the name-recognition and the hype. This is also why the bought and paid for access media and the skewing of Rotten Tomatoes (for Captain Marvel, let's say) have conspired to create a gullible public.

    Rotten Tomatoes has 91% score from the shill media and only 44% from those who saw the movie. So to really judge the movie's success in monetary terms, subtract those who would not have bought a ticket had they known in advance what they were getting. This would leave you with $581 million which would be pathetic for a SW tentpole. The "satisfaction adjusted" gross of Solo would then drop to $250 million. Force awakens "satisfaction adjusted" would be $1.74 BILLION.

    So objectively The Last Jedi was roughly 1/3rd as successful as its predecessor. Because of the lag effect, dissatisfaction will spill over into proceeds for subsequent films. So Episode XI may face the brunt of residual TLJ backlash.

    The #1 sentiment I'm seeing in relation to Star Wars online is indifference. Fans aren't whining and complaining anymore. They are just done with Star Wars entirely or at least the sequel Trilogy. The Episode IX trailer didn't really reignite interest outside of that guy who cried over it. This is not what Disney would like to see.

    Unfortunately the sequel trilogy needs broad 4-quadrant appeal. The Last Jedi has shaved off a lot of mainstream appeal and leaving its most rabid defenders being the militant left-leaning twitterati who, after losing the last election, now see Hollywood as a last ditch political battleground. This demographic shift is also going to take place in the MCU and it's going to eventually lose as much money as Gillette lost from insulting its customers.
     
  2. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    Luke gave up on himself, not his nephew. Rey convinced him to go back and fight for Ben's soul.
     
  3. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sigh. I find it very hard to believe that 67.6 million Americans will go to a movie that most people think is "terrible." Word of mouth does get out.

    Provide proof. There's a tweet that has been seriously misconstrued and I imagine that's what you speak of.

    And here we go with the conspiracy theories...

    You can't focus on one poll.

    IMDB has a 7.1.
    CinemaScore was an "A."
    Hell, TrekBBS' has 214/289 ratings at a B- or higher (with 32 of those votes at a D+ or lower)

    I'm not going to bring up the old argument that perhaps the RT poll was sabotaged because I have no proof. However, I think that your commentary is no more realistic. I think its more fair to suggest this: The Last Jedi is a divisive film with those who like the movie and those who don't deeply entrenched in their opinions.

    This is reaching. Solo may have failed for multiple reasons, one of which, admittedly, is the divisiveness of TLJ.

    Let me guess? YouTube? Ah, the bastion of "real" journalism! :rolleyes:

    And now I can't just take you seriously. Really? Bringing politics into this?!? My enjoyment of TLJ has absolutely nothing to do with my feelings of politics as they sit now. This is just a pathetic comment.
     
  4. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

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    Politics? In a TrekBBS thread? Unthinkable! Gosh, we might actually have to start locking threads for the first time ever!
     
  5. Serveaux

    Serveaux Boomer American Premium Member

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    Go die on that hill.


    I was actually fairly lukewarm, no pun intended, on TLJ for structural reasons. There are visual cliches associated with directing for 3D in action movies that I find tedious, and I think it's a shame that movies on this scale can no longer take advantage of a lot of screening feedback and editorial reworking prior to scheduling for release. But none of the story points themselves or the characters, old or new, were at all problematic.
     
  6. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Luke was basically a poorly educated Sand Farmer trash who was left with a few books and told to build a religious cult - of course it was going to end badly!
     
  7. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

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    Harsh! But a great point.
     
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  8. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And that's exactly what happened. Praise the prophet.
     
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  9. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    It seems that Luke never really even read those old books in depth (were those all books that he found there in the ancient temple, or did he obtain any writings earlier such as from Old Ben's home or Yoda's mud hut? I can't remember). So he was really basing everything on what Obi-Wan and Yoda taught him verbally in the brief times he was with them.

    And then Rey swiped the books and stashed them on the Falcon, and she's probably not going to read them, either.

    Kor
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
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  10. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the comics Luke did find a journal that Obi-Wan kept, that he studied. There are several flashback stories that are entries from it.
    This is pretty much where we seem to be at with this thread:
    [​IMG]
     
  11. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    Well for me..
    Here's my feelings when watching the new movies:
    TFA - egh it was okay, watchable, but pretty much a rehash of ep4
    Rogue One - didn't like it when i first saw it in the movies, but' I've warmed up to it.. that spy guy has the appeal of an carboard box.. though did like K2SO
    TLJ - Loved it in the movies, there were problems yes, but in all I enjoyed it.
    Solo - Loved it! Best movie in the new batch In my opinion!
     
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  12. Sci-fi fan

    Sci-fi fan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I rest my case when the most 'upboated 'comment here is someone using a terrible meme with the only """"argument"""" being "you are wrong".
    The rewrite of the character not only doesn't make sense, even it had made sense, a neutral/almost evil "Resistance" makes the story pointless and banal.

    In any case, their failure to top TFA and the re-hiring of Abrams speaks for itself.
    Disney knows pretty well it was a total failure and it might be unsaveable now.
     
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, actually, it doesn't. Sequels rarely make the same amount of money as the first film in a trilogy so that's not an indication of much. Abrams being rehired shows they have confidence him to produce the product on time and in budget. When Teverrarow became too expensive you go with what you know.
    Also, no. Bob Iger recognizes their mistake with Solo and is retooling it. That's the CEO of Disney making adjustments to their release date, rather than having one after another in six months.

    That's business.
    This keeps getting repeated but it doesn't make it any more objectively true. Many have argued the points, both for and against, and they are repeatedly ignored. So, the short answer is "No."
     
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  14. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, if we must bring the tired and tedious box office argument into the discussion, it should rightly be pointed out that TLJ was the top earner of 2017.

    Kor
     
  15. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Admiral Admiral

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    With your clickbatey type language, you should start a youtube channel.
    Like the movie or not, it literally was NOT a total failure.
    Only in angry fanboy's mind can a billion dollar movie be a "total failure."
     
  16. Campe

    Campe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Don’t give him any ideas! Lol
     
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  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Just another YouTube channel.
     
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  18. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    3PO is helping her translate them. If only the films could figure out a way to make him useful to the plot by application of his skill set. But we haven't seen any such thing since the days of TESB and ROTJ.
     
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  19. Ripped Shirt

    Ripped Shirt Ensign Red Shirt

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    I thought Luke's character change was one of the high points on TLJ. We all get a bit grumpy as we get older ;)

    If he wasn't so grumpy, sarcastic and cynical he wouldn't have been able to mug Kylo off in such a glorious fashion at the end. I look forward to his Force Ghost haunting the new Supreme Leader in hilarious fashion.
     
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  20. ScottJ85

    ScottJ85 Captain Captain

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    what on god's flat earth

    And the best-selling blu-ray of 2018 and still selling very well this year, if I remember right.