Luke Skywalker's Character Problem in Star Wars The Last Jedi

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by Sci-fi fan, Jul 30, 2019.

  1. Sci-fi fan

    Sci-fi fan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Here's an analysis on why the Luke rewrite made no sense.



    PS. There are signs Abrams wrote it differently at first and Rian ruined it. It's questionable if Luke would be that prominent in the second movie at all. Sure, Abrams mainly soft-rebooted, he wasn't revolutionary but it might be better than making no sense. There is no point having a "good side" if they are unwilling to forgive their friends that faltered. What is the point of fighting then? What is the point if both sides are practically evil or neutral? What is the point of calling yourself the light side if you show no forgiveness or mercy? To sell pew pew and lightsaber fights as a fan service?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Again, fundamental lack of understanding of human psychology. Ben's turn towards the Dark Side wounded Luke far more deeply than Vader did, because it was Luke's responsibility to continue the Jedi way. He was, as you noted, the last hope. So, it makes sense that Luke would feel an immense depression and sense of failure if his own nephew fell towards the Dark Side. He would feel like giving up, not just on Ben but on himself and on the Jedi way. And that's exactly what we find in TLJ.

    It's not a fundamental misunderstanding of the character. It's a lack of recognition of the impact such an event would have upon a person. It's a lack of the psychological impact of depression and sense of failure.

    As for your other questions, they apply equally to the Jedi of the PT. Where was the forgiveness and mercy from Obi-Wan to Anakin as he lay burning, presumably, to death? Why have a light side if that's how you are going to treat a former friend and student? To have an over-the-top immolation scene to be "edgy?"

    P.S. Abrams was aware of the changes Rian made, and Rian was overseen by Kennedy and the Story Group. Despite their power, these directors do not get carte blanche to due whatever they want.
     
  3. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yay! YouTube videos!

    ETA: Now, that my smartass comment has been added, let me be serious: This video is one individual's opinion that the OP happens to agree with.

    Despite what the video suggests
    , it is just that. An opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  4. King Bob!

    King Bob! History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    I didn’t see a problem with the character. :shrug:
     
  5. saddestmoon

    saddestmoon Captain Captain

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    Luke character was given more gravitas, in TLJ, and was expanded on well (IMO). Of all the flaws that TLJ has, Luke’s character development is not one of them.

    I fully expect him to be back in TROS - he may have crossed over beyond the physical realm at the end of TLJ, but he’s not actually dead - just moved into another state.

    My ‘gut’ tells me, we are all going to be surprised, when we next see him in TROS!

    TLJ: Act two of a three act play.
    TROS: Act Three!

    Stay tuned...

    :)
     
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  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    It always amazes me that, in a space fantasy series where Force ghosts exists, there is still the belief that death is the end for a Jedi... :wtf::shrug:
     
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Sweet shit. Rian Johnson was not a lone gun on this movie. He had creative oversight from Disney and Lucasfilm. He could not do anything with the movie without their approval. But no of course, Rian Johnson is the ultimate evil destroying the sanctity of the Star Wars universe. Oh save us, JJ Abrams, you're our only hope!
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Facts mean nothing against emotion in this case.
     
  9. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Funny, I remember there being a lot of hate against JJ a few years back and that Johnson was the only one who could save things.

    Times, they are a-changin’!
     
  10. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, don't worry. After Rise of Skywalker is released everyone will be hating Abrams again.
     
  11. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That son of a bitch.

    ;)
     
  12. Sci-fi fan

    Sci-fi fan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Again, that's the stance of a hypocrite precisely because the psychology of the character was absolute nonsense. He went from someone that proved the most dangerous person in the galaxy can be redeemed to someone that gave up on someone clearly less dangerous and evil. The mambo-jambo you say regarding "IT WAS ABOUT HIS OWN SCHOOL GUYS, IT WAS PERSONAL, THAT'S WHY IT WAS IMPORTANT" is embarrassing for you when you imply you are some kind of master psychologist since in the other case it was about his own father that he missed as a child, and it can't get more personal than that.

    And you know what, even if you could stretch it that he "changed" it's still destructive to the story. The entire point of the good side is that it can forgive their friends even when they falter. What is the point to even have a "Resistance" if it's all about revenge and destruction of the opposition? Why do we even fight for? To sell toys and bait nostalgia with surface-over-substance lightsaber fights? It seems like it.

    Besides, Mr Master Psychologist, as I had said multiple times, the only way for that drastic change to make sense is for Luke to have had severe trauma, and it was never implied.

    Even his own mother gives up on Ben in this nonsense. And she is supposedly on the "Good side". Are they all Sith now? Are they incapable to forgive? The harder it is to forgive and the more you do it the more you prove you are the good side. That's why the original story culminated.

    The story is clearly rewritten to total nonsense and in any case, it is rewritten to be less interesting.
     
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  13. jaime

    jaime Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think that’s the point in Luke though. He rejects the way Obi Wan had to cut down Anakin because he couldn’t bring him back...he rejects Yoda and Obi Wan sending him on a hit job against his father, and finds a third way. Forgiveness and redemption.
    It’s precisely because of that Obi Wan moment, that shows Luke as being even more ‘light side’ than the Jedi. It’s Old Testament vs New Testament. Now in the third testament we get ‘nope, wrong after all...blood and thunder!’
     
  14. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Kylo Ren has proven to be mentally unstable. He darkness may be greater than that of Palpatine. He worships Darth Vader. He is actively getting stronger in the Dark Side and shunning the Light. At his own free will. We know he's been somewhat manipulated by Snoke for years, but to what extend is unclear since Snoke's kind of become a non-(bisected)-issue.

    The potential return of Palpatine in Rise of Skywalker might change the game for Kylo Ren/Ben Skywalker. For all we know, JJ might have gone with the Dark Empire route and had Palpatine's spirit implant itself in Leia's womb after the end of the Battle of Endor and be possessing Ben Solo this whole time. If that's the case, than they didn't foreshadow it enough.
     
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  15. flavaflav

    flavaflav Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    Posting these stupid kinds of YouTube videos should get you sent to the gulag. I despise them.
     
  16. jaime

    jaime Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There’s a deleted scene in the ewok village I do not want to see.

    Rens fall is...rubbish. He’s already fallen when we start, there’s no room for a prequel trilogy between the two as such, and we have no narrative reasons for it, when there is absolutely a need for one to be there, simply because of the nature of the OT.
     
  17. mos6507

    mos6507 Commodore Commodore

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    Most Last Jedi critics are more than happy to spread the blame around, especially towards KK.
     
  18. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

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    The hate is calculated and dictated by several trolls on the internet with the loudest voices. I believe its a form at an attempt for "click baiting" just for fans to read it and be upset. A person has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much time on their hands audio commentary a project they didn't shoot or barely know the process of getting the movie onto the screen and uploading their amateur crap on youtube just for hits.
     
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  19. EnderAKH

    EnderAKH Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You take this far too personally. May I recommend adult coloring books? My wife finds them incredibly calming in a zen kind of way.
    https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Hav...way&sprefix=adult+,aps,173&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    No, actually. It wasn't personal because Luke didn't actually no his father. His school, on the other hand, he built himself, while being told the whole time he is the "last hope" for the Jedi. He did not know Anakin the way he knew Ben or the way that he knew his school.

    I'm not a "master psychologist" so lets put that term to rest, ok? :)
    Severe trauma is highly subjective. Trauma is something that is intensely upsetting that a person feels they cannot deal with.

    The lack of forgiveness does not mean evil. These are still people, capable of mistakes and challenges.
    I don't think it's "wrong after all." I think it's the protective instincts of a person hurt and not sure what to do, so he runs away. It's not that forgiveness isn't possible; it's that Luke can think past his hurt at the time.

    We as the audience sit there and go "Oh, it's so obvious" and remove all the emotional components out of it. But, that's not how the characters see it. They are in the middle of deeply powerful emotions and emotions impact our ability to think clearly. Luke is clearly highly emotional, highly conflicted, and uncertain. He fears the mistakes of the past being repeated and feels responsible for causing them, but fears trying to help again for fear of making it worse.

    It's rich in its nuance of human conflict and highly enjoyable for me.

    But, I can see that not being for everyone.
     
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