Lucasfilm announces a new direction for the Star Wars EU

[cooleddie74]

His movies have generally horrible characters, SW will be no exception.

You.

Don't.

Know.

THAT.

J.J. Abrams is not the only person involved in this movie by a light-year. Kasdan's involved. Kathleen Kennedy. Lucas is on the periphery advising and consulting because it's his baby whether he still owns the thing or not. This isn't Star Trek. This is Disney and Lucasfilm, not Paramount. Different movie. Different studio. Different people.

But then - you made up your mind about this movie long ago, so what's the point?

 

[Starbreaker]

There's nothing that bugs me more than longwinded discussions about what's "canon" or "real" in FICTION. It's all fake. I'd rather have a good story than something that fits into somebody's little niche about what they perceive to be real in a fictional universe.

 

[Campe]

I've seen two of his movies, and one season of Lost.

So, I said I was done with you but this is far too precious not to come back and fight this point. From what I'm understanding, the material you've watched involves JJ co-writing and directing the Trek films and the teleplay and direction of the pilot episode of Lost. So based on that, let me get this straight... because of what amounts to six hours of his produced work, JJ Abrams, in your opinion, sucks?

Wow.

First, I know the Trek films are divisive. I enjoyed them but I'm not going to get into that with you or anyone else. Despite what people think of the rest of the series, the pilot episode of Lost is widely considered to be two of the most engaging hours of television. Ever.

Second, he has done a lot of work outside of that. I really am baffled at how anyone can make broad assumptions that all of his work sucks based on so little of what he has done. Like I said, his work on Trek is really, REALLY divisive. I get that. But I don't think it's fair to judge an entire body of work on two films despite how much you might not like them. Not everything he's done has been great. But he has done some really good things.

You really might like Alias. Just watch the pilot. It's 66 minutes long. It's the story of a spy who finds out her world isn't quite what she thought it was. It's pretty compelling stuff. If you hate it, then that's cool. But if you do watch it, go in with an open mind. It might surprise you.

But, that's just my suggestion. You do what you want to.

 

[kirk55555]

His movies have generally horrible characters, SW will be no exception.

You.

Don't.

Know.

THAT.

J.J. Abrams is not the only person involved in this movie by a light-year. Kasdan's involved. Kathleen Kennedy. Lucas is on the periphery advising and consulting because it's his baby whether he still owns the thing or not. This isn't Star Trek. This is Disney and Lucasfilm, not Paramount. Different movie. Different studio. Different people.

But then - you made up your mind about this movie long ago, so what's the point?

Of course my mind is made up. I hate Abrams. He helped guarantee that we'll never get real Star Trek in live action form ever gain. His Trek make even the most mindless 80s action movie look like The Lord of the Rings. That was enough to make me hate him. No one that could make JJ Trek could do anything worthwhile. Its like saying I should watch a Michael Bay movie with an open mind, because this movie might not just be an excuse for his trademark explosions/action scenes.

Now, he's teaming up with the company that just threw 80% of what I love about the SW franchise down the drain just so they can make sure its corporate controlled crap. He's helping with writing the movie based off the story of Lucas apparently (who would let that idiot write even just the basic story of another Star Wars movie?) and his co-writer Kasdan hasn't done anything good since Return of the Jedi (unless you really like Dreamcatcher or French Kiss). I don't know why Kathleen Kennedy gets to be her own sentence like she's important. Apparently, she's a rather prolific producer. That doesn't mean anything for Episode VII, especially with two other producers, one of which is also the director. Plus, working with people like Spielberg a bunch of times does not mean she is Spielberg. I'm sure that, based on her many credits on good movies, she's good at her job. But, I don't see her having any real impact on a movie already being influenced by much more important people/corporations.

I'm sure this won't just be Abrams trainwreck when it comes to the movies, but between Disney already ruining the universe, and abrams being an idiot, I'd rather get a Jar Jar spin off written and directed by Lucas than an Abrams/Disney Episode VII.

You really might like Alias. Just watch the pilot. It's 66 minutes long. It's the story of a spy who finds out her world isn't quite what she thought it was. It's pretty compelling stuff. If you hate it, then that's cool. But if you do watch it, go in with an open mind. It might surprise you.

But, that's just my suggestion. You do what you want to.

You're entitled to your opinion. But, the only thing that can get me to get through any of Abrams work at this point is my morbid curiosity about a pre-existing franchise I like getting ruined. Trying to watch something he did that doesn't even have the benefit of an established name is not something I'd even consider. Add to that the fact that I'm not a big fan of Spy stories that aren't sci fi/superhero stuff and that the specific premise of Alias sounds really stupid, and that's 66 minutes that I'm not willing to waste on the show.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Wall of hate text

Man you should really, really calm down. Might make life more fun.

 

[cooleddie74]

[Peter Griffin] That, uh....that was just thoroughly unpleasant. [/Peter Griffin]

 

[BillJ]

[Peter Griffin] That, uh....that was just thoroughly unpleasant. [/Peter Griffin]

+1

 

[Campe]

His movies have generally horrible characters, SW will be no exception.

You.

Don't.

Know.

THAT.

J.J. Abrams is not the only person involved in this movie by a light-year. Kasdan's involved. Kathleen Kennedy. Lucas is on the periphery advising and consulting because it's his baby whether he still owns the thing or not. This isn't Star Trek. This is Disney and Lucasfilm, not Paramount. Different movie. Different studio. Different people.

But then - you made up your mind about this movie long ago, so what's the point?

Of course my mind is made up. I hate Abrams. He helped guarantee that we'll never get real Star Trek in live action form ever gain. His Trek make even the most mindless 80s action movie look like The Lord of the Rings. That was enough to make me hate him. No one that could make JJ Trek could do anything worthwhile. Its like saying I should watch a Michael Bay movie with an open mind, because this movie might not just be an excuse for his trademark explosions/action scenes.

Now, he's teaming up with the company that just threw 80% of what I love about the SW franchise down the drain just so they can make sure its corporate controlled crap. He's helping with writing the movie based off the story of Lucas apparently (who would let that idiot write even just the basic story of another Star Wars movie?) and his co-writer Kasdan hasn't done anything good since Return of the Jedi (unless you really like Dreamcatcher or French Kiss). I don't know why Kathleen Kennedy gets to be her own sentence like she's important. Apparently, she's a rather prolific producer. That doesn't mean anything for Episode VII, especially with two other producers, one of which is also the director. Plus, working with people like Spielberg a bunch of times does not mean she is Spielberg. I'm sure that, based on her many credits on good movies, she's good at her job. But, I don't see her having any real impact on a movie already being influenced by much more important people/corporations.

I'm sure this won't just be Abrams trainwreck when it comes to the movies, but between Disney already ruining the universe, and abrams being an idiot, I'd rather get a Jar Jar spin off written and directed by Lucas than an Abrams/Disney Episode VII.

You really might like Alias. Just watch the pilot. It's 66 minutes long. It's the story of a spy who finds out her world isn't quite what she thought it was. It's pretty compelling stuff. If you hate it, then that's cool. But if you do watch it, go in with an open mind. It might surprise you.

But, that's just my suggestion. You do what you want to.

You're entitled to your opinion. But, the only thing that can get me to get through any of Abrams work at this point is my morbid curiosity about a pre-existing franchise I like getting ruined. Trying to watch something he did that doesn't even have the benefit of an established name is not something I'd even consider. Add to that the fact that I'm not a big fan of Spy stories that aren't sci fi/superhero stuff and that the specific premise of Alias sounds really stupid, and that's 66 minutes that I'm not willing to waste on the show.

Welp, I really am done here now. An argument is pointless when one side deals in complete and total absolutes and won't budge an inch. Don't look at this as a victory because you've won nothing. In my mind, it's just time to agree to disagree. I'll at least give Episode VII a chance even though I really am cautiously optimistic at best. You enjoy rereading your precious EU.

 

[Admiral2]

His movies have generally horrible characters, SW will be no exception.

You.

Don't.

Know.

THAT.

J.J. Abrams is not the only person involved in this movie by a light-year. Kasdan's involved. Kathleen Kennedy. Lucas is on the periphery advising and consulting because it's his baby whether he still owns the thing or not. This isn't Star Trek. This is Disney and Lucasfilm, not Paramount. Different movie. Different studio. Different people.

But then - you made up your mind about this movie long ago, so what's the point?

Of course my mind is made up. I hate Abrams. He helped guarantee that we'll never get real Star Trek in live action form ever gain. His Trek make even the most mindless 80s action movie look like The Lord of the Rings. That was enough to make me hate him. No one that could make JJ Trek could do anything worthwhile. Its like saying I should watch a Michael Bay movie with an open mind, because this movie might not just be an excuse for his trademark explosions/action scenes.

Now, he's teaming up with the company that just threw 80% of what I love about the SW franchise down the drain just so they can make sure its corporate controlled crap. He's helping with writing the movie based off the story of Lucas apparently (who would let that idiot write even just the basic story of another Star Wars movie?) and his co-writer Kasdan hasn't done anything good since Return of the Jedi (unless you really like Dreamcatcher or French Kiss). I don't know why Kathleen Kennedy gets to be her own sentence like she's important. Apparently, she's a rather prolific producer. That doesn't mean anything for Episode VII, especially with two other producers, one of which is also the director. Plus, working with people like Spielberg a bunch of times does not mean she is Spielberg. I'm sure that, based on her many credits on good movies, she's good at her job. But, I don't see her having any real impact on a movie already being influenced by much more important people/corporations.

I'm sure this won't just be Abrams trainwreck when it comes to the movies, but between Disney already ruining the universe, and abrams being an idiot, I'd rather get a Jar Jar spin off written and directed by Lucas than an Abrams/Disney Episode VII.

You really might like Alias. Just watch the pilot. It's 66 minutes long. It's the story of a spy who finds out her world isn't quite what she thought it was. It's pretty compelling stuff. If you hate it, then that's cool. But if you do watch it, go in with an open mind. It might surprise you.

But, that's just my suggestion. You do what you want to.

You're entitled to your opinion. But, the only thing that can get me to get through any of Abrams work at this point is my morbid curiosity about a pre-existing franchise I like getting ruined. Trying to watch something he did that doesn't even have the benefit of an established name is not something I'd even consider. Add to that the fact that I'm not a big fan of Spy stories that aren't sci fi/superhero stuff and that the specific premise of Alias sounds really stupid, and that's 66 minutes that I'm not willing to waste on the show.

Kirk, I laugh only because I'm usually the one pointing out the flaws of JJ-ism and getting reamed out by his sycophants. Stay the course.

And Alias is just the JJ Abrams version of la Femme Nikita, a superior series starring Peta Wilson. You're not missing anything by passing on it

 

[Reverend]

It seems we have some rookies in this thread, so I feel compelled to give a little advice: You really, really, *really* don't want to get into a discussion with kirk55555 once he's made his mind up. Ever.
He makes sweeping statements based on snap judgements and never ever EVER changes his mind. No matter how many people patiently explain to him why he's in error, no matter what volume of evidence it brought to bare. Nothing changes this guy's mind and to attempt to do so in an exercise in frustration and will only derail the thread.

I'm not flaming the guy, got nothing against him and he's absolutly entitled to his opinion...but I've learnt from experience to just take his opinions as fact--as in "it is a fact that kirk55555 believes such-and-such"--and just leave it at that. I think we'll find that this thread would go a lot more smoothly if we just accept his opinions for what they are. His opinions.

...now can we get back on topic?

There's nothing that bugs me more than longwinded discussions about what's "canon" or "real" in FICTION. It's all fake. I'd rather have a good story than something that fits into somebody's little niche about what they perceive to be real in a fictional universe.

I don't disagree, but from a practical stand point, if you have a franchise that is subject to several creative minds, then you're going to need some semblance of a canon if you want things to be reasonably consistent.

That alternative is usually either a shambolic and incoherent mess of arbitrarily contradictory stories or a densely layered strata of multiple overlapping continuities that only the most dedicated fans can untangle. Up until now, the EU has been straddling the border of the latter. Mostly due to the sheer critical mass of material mixed with the necessity to play catchup to the canon of the movies & TV series.

 

[Jedi Ben]

Bomb?

Yup, it's had an explosive effect across the internet!

I can only imagine the clusterfuck that the Jedi Council Forums at TheForce.net have become since the announcement was made...

Oh, you don't have to imagine it! And, from what I've been told, Twitter is far, far worse.

I can't say I'm happy about this, despite there being large parts of the EU I've disliked greatly over the last decade and a half, but neither can I do much about. It's happened, that's that. It was on the cards about 9 months ago, so prepared for it then.

To be honest, I have more confidence in Pocket Books than I do LFL-DR!

 

[Starbreaker]

There's nothing that bugs me more than longwinded discussions about what's "canon" or "real" in FICTION. It's all fake. I'd rather have a good story than something that fits into somebody's little niche about what they perceive to be real in a fictional universe.

I don't disagree, but from a practical stand point, if you have a franchise that is subject to several creative minds, then you're going to need some semblance of a canon if you want things to be reasonably consistent.

That alternative is usually either a shambolic and incoherent mess of arbitrarily contradictory stories or a densely layered strata of multiple overlapping continuities that only the most dedicated fans can untangle. Up until now, the EU has been straddling the border of the latter. Mostly due to the sheer critical mass of material mixed with the necessity to play catchup to the canon of the movies & TV series.

I think it would have been a shame if the movies would have had to follow the route of the EU novels. There's obviously been a lot of worldbuilding that will be laid aside, but this movie needs to not be directed by novels written 15 years ago

 

[Owain Taggart]

The old EU will still be around for anyone to enjoy. It just won't be considered as part of the ongoing canon. That shouldn't stop anyone from enjoying them if that's what they prefer. They're just basically taking the opportunity with the new movies to spearhead new novels under the new vision. When you have at least 30 years between Return of the Jedi and a new upcoming sequel, it's absolutely understandable to want to cast aside any old ties that are full of contradictions and don't share the new vision. It would be unfathomable to try to juggle all that.

 

[Set Harth]

I like to look at the positives.

Vergere and all her bullshit: GONE.

Admiral Daala: NEVER EXISTED.

Plagueis creating Anakin: BACK ON THE TABLE.

WOOOHOOOOOO!!!!!

 

[Reverend]

There's nothing that bugs me more than longwinded discussions about what's "canon" or "real" in FICTION. It's all fake. I'd rather have a good story than something that fits into somebody's little niche about what they perceive to be real in a fictional universe.

I don't disagree, but from a practical stand point, if you have a franchise that is subject to several creative minds, then you're going to need some semblance of a canon if you want things to be reasonably consistent.

That alternative is usually either a shambolic and incoherent mess of arbitrarily contradictory stories or a densely layered strata of multiple overlapping continuities that only the most dedicated fans can untangle. Up until now, the EU has been straddling the border of the latter. Mostly due to the sheer critical mass of material mixed with the necessity to play catchup to the canon of the movies & TV series.

I think it would have been a shame if the movies would have had to follow the route of the EU novels. There's obviously been a lot of worldbuilding that will be laid aside, but this movie needs to not be directed by novels written 15 years ago

Absolutely agree. I've said several times on the board since Episode VII was announced that the people who think that they're going to adapt 'Heir to the Empire' are just plain kidding themselves.

The only EU story I can think of that could conceivably work (from a plot mechanics/story telling POV) as a follow of from Jedi would be the Dark Empire books, but even that would smack of repetition. Worse really since it never really made sense how Luke fell to the dark side an even less how he so easily redeemed himself. I always felt like they came up with the image of Luke dressed as Vader (sans cybernetics) and reverse engineered a story from that.

But yeah, trying to incorporate EpVII into the entirety of 40 years of EU material was always going to be a loose loose proposition. A clean slate was the only feasible way to go.

And as many people have already said, the old publications aren't going anywhere.

 

[shapeshifter]

The old EU will still be around for anyone to enjoy. It just won't be considered as part of the ongoing canon. That shouldn't stop anyone from enjoying them if that's what they prefer. They're just basically taking the opportunity with the new movies to spearhead new novels under the new vision. When you have at least 30 years between Return of the Jedi and a new upcoming sequel, it's absolutely understandable to want to cast aside any old ties that are full of contradictions and don't share the new vision. It would be unfathomable to try to juggle all that.

EM Apparently not. Nearly 12 pages of one person's anxiety nearly dominating the topic.

As a Trekker, I am so jealous of Wars getting this bold new direction, I wish Trek could get the same. Any chance we could persuade Treks owners into selling? (rhetorical)

Anyway cannot wait for showtime to arrive. I really do have a good feeling about this.

 

[JarodRussell]

Just to get this straight, JJ Abrams is AGAIN pissing off the hardcore fanbase because of ignoring what came before in favor of doing something different?

That guy is a serial rebooter!

 

[sojourner]

It's not a reboot, The movie is ignoring the EU books, just as every Trek movie made has ignored the books.

 

[cooleddie74]

Episode VII isn't remotely a reboot. The books and graphic novels aren't movies, so there's no cinematic timeline and history to reboot.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

This video breaks this whole issue down. Maybe you guys will find it useful

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUYani6X1Jw[/yt]