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I view the Trek universe as we know it as a predestination paradox. FC leads to ENT, SNW, TOS and all the rest. It doesn't set up an alternate reality. The NX-01 under Archer always existed from 2151-61 and there was always a Klingon raid on Doctari Alpha that killed Michael Burnham's father.
I view the Trek universe as we know it as a predestination paradox. FC leads to ENT, SNW, TOS and all the rest. It doesn't set up an alternate reality. The NX-01 under Archer always existed from 2151-61 and there was always a Klingon raid on Doctari Alpha that killed Michael Burnham's father.
That’s how I’ve always viewed it as well, and it’s how many instances of past time travel have been depicted to date.
The discovery of Data’s head under San Francisco leading to his head being left under San Francisco in the past in Time’s Arrow, is a clear example of a predestination paradox.
And more recently
in PIC S02 the Agnes Borg Queen’s appearance at the beginning, as well as Rios’s picture and the bullet holes in the Chateau already being around before Q’s machinations and the ensuing time travel shenanigans provides another example.
And Scotty observes his participation in a possible/apparent predestination paradox in The Voyage Home when he and Bones discuss giving the formula for transparent aluminum to Dr Nichols in the ‘80s:
Bones said:
Well, a moment alone, please. ...Do you realise of course, if we give him the formula, we're altering the future.
Data's head is buried under San Francisco in not only 1893 but also 1986, 2024, ENT and even in the Kelvin Timeline since the splinter point in that timeline wasn't created until 2233. It's a pretty clean and linear(no pun intended) concept overall and has worked for me for years.
Data's head is buried under San Francisco in not only 1893 but also 1986, 2024, ENT and even in the Kelvin Timeline since the splinter point in that timeline wasn't created until 2233. It's a pretty clean and linear(no pun intended) concept overall and has worked for me for years.
It wasn’t when they first arrived, because the time travel shenanigans that brought Data’s head there were temporarily undone when Picard & co. had come from the Confederacy’s future, Data’s head would’ve effectively popped out of existence for that period of time.
Then, by the time they have set the timeline right and corrected the quantum state of 2024 to lean towards the normal Federation’s future again, Data’s head would have popped back into existence in a cavern under San Francisco.
It’s not unlike a case of Schrödinger’s Data’s head, where in a sense during the first portion of Picard’s time in 2024 Data’s head was both present and absent from its place beneath the Bay Area.
It wasn’t when they first arrived, because the time travel shenanigans that brought Data’s head there were temporarily undone when Picard & co. had come from the Confederacy’s future, Data’s head would’ve effectively popped out of existence for that period of time.
Then, by the time they have set the timeline right and corrected the quantum state of 2024 to lean towards the normal Federation’s future again, Data’s head would have popped back into existence in a cavern under San Francisco.
It’s not unlike a case of Schrödinger’s Data’s head, where in a sense during the first portion of Picard’s time in 2024 Data’s head was both present and absent from its place beneath the Bay Area.
It’s already a paradox, that’s baked into all predestination paradoxes.
Guinan’s experiences changed as the timeline was in flux when the future after 2024 was altered, and then corrected. Guinan met Picard in 19th Century San Francisco, except for a brief time when the quantum state of reality was shifted toward a different future by Q, and the ensuing domino effect of time travel retroactively changed her past, and she didn’t meet Picard in 19th Century SF.
Because of the predestination paradox aspect of the story, it could be argued that Q’s actions were always meant to be a part of history, and that this is the only version of 2024, whereby Q’s shifting of things to Confederacy’s future, and then Picard’s ensuing time travel from said future altered the quantum superposition of, among other things, Guinan & Picard’s first meeting/relationship for about 3 days until Reneé Picard’s mission was on a path to success.
It’s already a paradox, that’s baked into all predestination paradoxes.
Guinan’s experiences changed as the timeline was in flux when the future after 2024 was altered, and then corrected. Guinan met Picard in 19th Century San Francisco, except for a brief time when the quantum state of reality was shifted toward a different future by Q, and the ensuing domino effect of time travel retroactively changed her past, and she didn’t meet Picard in 19th Century SF.
Because of the predestination paradox aspect of the story, it could be argued that Q’s actions were always meant to be a part of history, and that this is the only version of 2024, whereby Q’s shifting of things to Confederacy’s future, and then Picard’s ensuing time travel from said future altered the quantum superposition of, among other things, Guinan & Picard’s first meeting/relationship for about 3 days until Reneé Picard’s mission was on a path to success.
The writers didn’t fuck up at all, they employed time travel logic based on cause and effect, and extended that in every direction.
There aren’t two separate Confederation and Federation universes that one Guinan is from and the other isn’t, the state of 2024 in the Prime universe was altered by traveling back from the future altered to become the Confederacy.
This is no different from the Enterprise crew traveling back to prevent the changes made by the Borg in First Contact. The characters and the audience see that the future was changed, just as as it was in PIC S02 when Q altered things to end up with the Confederacy, Earth had been assimilated centuries prior. There’s no dimensional travel from the Prime universe to the Confederacy universe, the Prime universe itself was changed, just as they werent transported to a divergent universe where the Borg had assimilated the Earth, and the Prime universe itself was changed.
In both instances they had to travel back before the important moment, in PIC S02 it was Renée Picard’s mission, in First Contact it was Cochrane’s warp flight and the titular First Contact.
There is no failure on the writers’ part, there’s no mistake or contradiction at all. Every aspect of time travel in the season was consistent with how time travel has been presented at some point in Trek history, including specifically bothYesterday’s Enterprise, and the First Contact film.
It’s messy and paradoxical because all time travel is, but it doesn’t fail to add up.
The writers didn’t fuck up at all, they employed time travel logic based on cause and effect, and extended that in every direction.
There aren’t two separate Confederation and Federation universes that one Guinan is from and the other isn’t, the state of 2024 in the Prime universe was altered by traveling back from the future altered to become the Confederacy.
This is no different from the Enterprise crew traveling back to prevent the changes made by the Borg in First Contact. The characters and the audience see that the future was changed, just as as it was in PIC S02 when Q altered things to end up with the Confederacy, Earth had been assimilated centuries prior. There’s no dimensional travel from the Prime universe to the Confederacy universe, the Prime universe itself was changed, just as they werent transported to a divergent universe where the Borg had assimilated the Earth, and the Prime universe itself was changed.
In both instances they had to travel back before the important moment, in PIC S02 it was Renée Picard’s mission, in First Contact it was Cochrane’s warp flight and the titular First Contact.
There is no failure on the writers’ part, there’s no mistake or contradiction at all. Every aspect of time travel in the season was consistent with how time travel has been presented at some point in Trek history, including specifically bothYesterday’s Enterprise, and the First Contact film.
It’s messy and paradoxical because all time travel is, but it doesn’t fail to add up.
1. 2024 where Federation Picard sorts out Times Arrow and it leads to the Federation where Federation Picard is taken to the Confederation time in 2401.
2. 2024 where confederation Picard sorts out Times Arrow and it leads to the confederation because Q shakes the timeline and federation Picard arrives the confederation timeline.
3. 2024 where Confederation sorts out Times Arrow and it leads to the conFederation after Q makes changes to steer time towards the confederation, and then Picard steers it back towards the Federation.
3a. This is where the writers fucked up. If Picard moves to 2401 from timeline 3 it's going to morph into time line 4 where young Guinan met young Picard, and middle aged Guinan didn't meet old Picard, but its still time line 3 where they show had its 2024 adventures even though as soon as they steer time back to the Federation, by 2368 times arrow happens and erases all their adventures in 2024 because young Guinan met middle aged Picard.
4. 2024 where federation Picard sorts out Times Arrow and it leads to the Federation, and federation Picard in confederation Picard's body returns back to the future, and continues his android life.
It already has, because Picard remembers the bullet holes in the walls of the chateau (caused by the battle with the Spearhead soldiers) from his childhood.
And of course there's Borgati's appearance in the first episode.
