Lower Decks? (No, it's stacked fairly highly)

[Roundabout]

Overall, it was a very entertaining episode. It was a nice change of pace.

I remember being convinced that some of these characters would be on Voyager. They don't usually spend that much time on multiple guest stars.

I don't know about Voyager, but I believe that Ogawa was the only lower decker to get a recurring gig on TNG. I remember that she de-evolved into a lower primate in "Genesis". But it was her amniotic fluid that saved the day.

The bartender - this is another first, where a double agent exists in a good way since he's getting to deal with both sets of crewmembers: the experienced and the eager lower ranks who get to hear all the juicy gossip.

In a way, he was almost like a version of Guinan. And he was a civilian. I guess it was beneath the dignity for Starfleet personnel to be bartending.

I liked the episode except for that part.
So Wesley, who we know did perfect in his classes, has to hang around and take the classes again?
What's the point in that?
No wonder he is a little pissy when he goes back to the ship for vacation later.
It would have been better if he had been sent for water sanitation work on Saturn station for the year. ( I guess they don't do that in Trek though)

That's right. What was the point? Wesley and rest of the squad should have been expelled like Locarno was. Wesley, searching for a new purpose in his life, would have made for a good subsequent storyline, imho.

Not only should they have been expelled, but probably should have been prosecuted as well. Somebody died as a result of their actions, for crying out loud. And then there was the cover-up on top of that. Wesley and Sito got off easy.

The first "talk" that Picard had with Sito (although it turned out to be misdirection on Picard's part in order to test the mettle of Sito), I thought Picard was spot on in laying out the case against her and in telling her that she should have been expelled from the academy.

What also bothered me about the Sito story was that, later on we found out that Picard brought her aboard the Enterprise to give her a chance to redeem herself. At the very least, after what she had done, shouldn't she have been made to work her way up, maybe like starting on a garbage scow. But to be assigned so quickly to the flagship of the fleet and to be given such an important mission? It didn't seem right.

 

[trekshark]

Overall, it was a very entertaining episode. It was a nice change of pace.


I don't know about Voyager, but I believe that Ogawa was the only lower decker to get a recurring gig on TNG. I remember that she de-evolved into a lower primate in "Genesis". But it was her amniotic fluid that saved the day.

actually she was a recurring character prior to Lower Decks, including being CMO in one of the alternate realities Worf jumped too.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Overall, it was a very entertaining episode. It was a nice change of pace.


I don't know about Voyager, but I believe that Ogawa was the only lower decker to get a recurring gig on TNG. I remember that she de-evolved into a lower primate in "Genesis". But it was her amniotic fluid that saved the day.


In a way, he was almost like a version of Guinan. And he was a civilian. I guess it was beneath the dignity for Starfleet personnel to be bartending.


That's right. What was the point? Wesley and rest of the squad should have been expelled like Locarno was. Wesley, searching for a new purpose in his life, would have made for a good subsequent storyline, imho.

Not only should they have been expelled, but probably should have been prosecuted as well. Somebody died as a result of their actions, for crying out loud. And then there was the cover-up on top of that. Wesley and Sito got off easy.

The first "talk" that Picard had with Sito (although it turned out to be misdirection on Picard's part in order to test the mettle of Sito), I thought Picard was spot on in laying out the case against her and in telling her that she should have been expelled from the academy.

What also bothered me about the Sito story was that, later on we found out that Picard brought her aboard the Enterprise to give her a chance to redeem herself. At the very least, after what she had done, shouldn't she have been made to work her way up, maybe like starting on a garbage scow. But to be assigned so quickly to the flagship of the fleet and to be given such an important mission? It didn't seem right.

You could argue that Picard wants to give Wesley another chance but he feels compelled to give the others a chance because he doesn't want to think he's engaged in nepotism--even when he is.

 

[Roundabout]

You could argue that Picard wants to give Wesley another chance but he feels compelled to give the others a chance because he doesn't want to think he's engaged in nepotism--even when he is.

After viewing it a few times, that is what I thought, as well.

That Wesley -- son of the chief medical officer of Starfleet's flagship and protege of the ship's captain -- got off easy, shouldn't have come at a surprise. Nepotism and favoritism was alive and well, even in Starfleet. To make it not seem so obvious, I suppose Starfleet had to let the other miscreants off easy as well, except for Locarno. Someone had to pay a price for such a serious offense.

You are probably right. Picard gave Sito a second chance in order to cover up for the fact that Wesley, the golden child, would eventually be given more chances too.

 

[Prax]

They got off with the punishment they did because Locarno took all the blame. If Wesley had gotten off any easier, it would be by virtue of the fact that he came forward and told the truth after having gotten away with it, not because he's a faculty student.

 

[Roundabout]

Picard figured out what happened with the stunt that Wesley and his squad attempted.

Picard forced Wesley's hand. He gave Wesley an ultimatum, either Wesley would fess up or Picard would reveal what really took place. Wesley buckled. I wouldn't exactly call Wesley's grudging admission of what really went down as a badge of honor.

Yes, according to Picard, Locarno asked to take all the blame (after they had been exposed), which is fine; and that was the official reason Wesley and the rest of the squad got off as easy as they did. And Picard seemed more than pleased that Wesley wasn't expelled. I wonder why.



Picard giving Sito a second chance in "Lower Decks", with a prestigious posting on the Enterprise in addition to an important covert mission, didn't seem deserved. It reeked of something unseemly.

It reeked of Picard covering up his nepotism. Picard was going to give Wesley as many chances as possible, and to justify the nepotism, Picard had to give the other disgraced cadets a second chance as well. I realize that this may be just my (and perhaps, others) interpretation of the situation.

And after watching "Lower Decks", I couldn't help but develop a different interpretation of the ending of "The First Duty". Let's not forget that someone died as a result of the action that Wesley and the squad committed. But one and only one person got expelled. It stinks.

 

[Mojochi]

Picard gave Sito a second chance in order to cover up for the fact that Wesley, the golden child, would eventually be given more chances too.

I've never really thought of it that way before, but I'd say you're at least partly right. 1st Picard probably truly believes they all deserve a 2nd chance. He himself has a history that can appreciate the stupidity & hubris of youth, & an artificial heart to remind him of it. Plus, Boothby gives us a hint that Picard himself was in a very similar situation as Wesley, during his academy years. He's sympathetic.

Secondly, yes... he knows he's personally invested in Wes, so he's certain to give him a pass eventually. So why not go ahead and take interest in some of the others, to be fair about it? I don't feel like it's some kind of unseemly hiding of nepotism. He's just soft hearted, & sympathizes. Frankly, I think it's pretty harsh to bandy about the term nepotism. The guy isn't even related to the kid, which flies in the face of the definition of the word. I'd say it's more like guilt, because lets face it, why wouldn't he feel a little guilt & responsibility for the kid having lost his father under his own command?

Plus, let's remember that we never hear anything else about Jean Hajar, the 4th Nova Squadron cadet. So it's not like he brought everybody from that squad on board. Personally, I feel like it's just as likely Picard might have a soft spot for the Bajoran ladies, given the way he went out of his way for Ro Laren. It's kind of a shame Sito died. She ended up being way more loyal than Ro, in the end. She earned the good faith he gave her, imho

 

[Charles Phipps]

Mind you, the result of Picard giving her a second chance is that she feels indebted to him and is willing to go along with a badly designed mission that has a very low chance of survival. There's a lot wrong with the idea of how to re-insert him into the Cardassian Union and frankly, the Obsidian Order probably saw right through him. It's also questionable their Double Agent cares what happens to a Bajoran female (since her escape pod is blown up). Picard unwittingly, and I believe its unwittingly, manipulated her into her death.

Picard did this to Ensign Ro in "Preemptive Strike" but she didn't feel nearly as obligated to him versus the cause.

Picard's emotional blackmail fairly often shows up but he seems unaware of it.

 

[Prax]

Sito was assigned to the Enterprise because Picard wanted to make sure she was given a fair chance.

Sito was later assigned to that mission because she was Bajoran, and Worf recommended her.

To suggest something "unseemly" here is to suggest Picard brought her on to the Enterprise for the purpose of sending her on the mission, because she is(by this suggestion) more expendable than other crew members. That's not at all what happened.

Also, Ro was not "guilted" into her mission. She trained for it, and was recommended for it by the admiral.

 

[Finn]

I thought they were both seniors, and forced to repeat their senior year.

Wesley was a first year IIRC. Nick Lorcano said something about how the red squad normally didn’t do that, implying the rest were older...

 

[Roundabout]

Secondly, yes... he knows he's personally invested in Wes, so he's certain to give him a pass eventually. So why not go ahead and take interest in some of the others, to be fair about it? I don't feel like it's some kind of unseemly hiding of nepotism. He's just soft hearted, & sympathizes. Frankly, I think it's pretty harsh to bandy about the term nepotism. The guy isn't even related to the kid, which flies in the face of the definition of the word.

I looked up the definition of nepotism on google before I posted, to make sure that I was using the right word. The google definition is "the practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs." So I went with it.

Maybe I should have used the word favoritism instead. But nepotism sounded more nefarious.

Anyway, some people believe that Wesley was actually the love child of Beverly and Jean-Luc. So perhaps, the word nepotism would be apt in any case.

Personally, I feel like it's just as likely Picard might have a soft spot for the Bajoran ladies, given the way he went out of his way for Ro Laren.

Could be that Picard has a thing for the wrinkles on the bridge of their noses.

 

[diankra]

There is an obvious hole in First Duty; if you perform a banned stunt successfully you could still expect to be disciplined. Unless you have a massize self-belief, which might work for Locarno, but not perhaps the whole team.
IIRC DS9 were thinking about having Sito reappear after some years as a Cardassian prisoner, but the episode didn't happen.