Lost from the beginning (NO SPOILERS)
- Thread starter OdoWanKenobi
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I was astonished how limp this episode was. Previous LOST penultimate episodes set up things beautifully and were a non-stop thrill ride--not this though--even the big cliffhanger revealing MIB intends to destroy the island was ho-hum when it should have been shocking. Widmore was nothing more than a wasted plot device. Same goes for Zoe. The writers crammed in at the last minute the explanation somehow Widmore changed his mind offscreen and is helping Jacob--a tad underwhelming. Another poorly handled possible death involving Richard.
And then I was all jazzed about Jacob's Big Exposition Scene[TM] that would explain basically the reason for this series to begin with but it was just more of a muddle than illuminating which really hurt the series in my opinion. L/C aren't even trying at this point.
And by now it was obvious the writers were not going to wrap up the mythology--it would just be an incomplete unsatisfying mess that fans had devoted time to studying and analyzing for six years that just fizzled out. As a result now it was clear the series just introduced teasers to these mysteries in order to string the audience along making them believe they would be well-developed and resolved in a satisfying manner by the end of the series--when in fact they had no intention to do that--rather they would claim it was all about the characters.
"What they Died for" was very very very average. L/C burnt me and caused me to re-evaluate mythology shows. I think the best thing is to scale back so stuff doesn't get too complicated and away from the writers. I think the best compromise is something like S1 of Heroes where there is a self contained season long arc that introduces questions but doesn't try to carry much over into a new season. That way they can keep track of the questions and have to have answers in a year rather than holding them off and never having them.
And then I was all jazzed about Jacob's Big Exposition Scene[TM] that would explain basically the reason for this series to begin with but it was just more of a muddle than illuminating which really hurt the series in my opinion. L/C aren't even trying at this point.
And by now it was obvious the writers were not going to wrap up the mythology--it would just be an incomplete unsatisfying mess that fans had devoted time to studying and analyzing for six years that just fizzled out. As a result now it was clear the series just introduced teasers to these mysteries in order to string the audience along making them believe they would be well-developed and resolved in a satisfying manner by the end of the series--when in fact they had no intention to do that--rather they would claim it was all about the characters.
"What they Died for" was very very very average. L/C burnt me and caused me to re-evaluate mythology shows. I think the best thing is to scale back so stuff doesn't get too complicated and away from the writers. I think the best compromise is something like S1 of Heroes where there is a self contained season long arc that introduces questions but doesn't try to carry much over into a new season. That way they can keep track of the questions and have to have answers in a year rather than holding them off and never having them.
I've been reading your posts since pretty much the beginning of the thread, and I just have to wonder: Have you considered the possibility that Lost is just not a show for you?
I just don't understand why you didn't start your own thread to discuss Lost, startrekwatcher. You've practically disagreed with everything he's said. It's like you've submitted yourself to 120 hours of pure torture for no reason.
Anyway, OdoWanKenobi, I can't believe you've watched almost the whole series in less than 4 months. That's very impressive.
Anyway, OdoWanKenobi, I can't believe you've watched almost the whole series in less than 4 months. That's very impressive.
I enjoyed LOST enormously at various points as you should have been able to tell by my posts but the way the writers set the series itself up as a big massive narrative it was imperative that they pulled it altogether at the end to make it really work. Instead looking back a lot of plot points introduced along the way never went anywhere. They were there just to be attention grabbing teasers--which in the moment--can be very exciting and satisfying but personally if they don't develop them then they come across as a cheap gimmick.
I mean we never learn about the injections Des was frantic to take in S2, the cabin Jacob then Christian took over, what was the significance of the wheel chamber being frozen when Ben went down there but not in "Across the Sea", the numbers had no satisfying explanation, why did the Others take Paul's body, who really was Ilana and what was her backstory and connection with Jacob etc etc. Also S5 was a step in the right direction in exploring Dharma but it didn't go far enough in exploring the organization and players like Hanso. So at the end of the day they just introduced pieces but did very little with them--so it is only at the end of the show that it becomes obvious. Before that there was always the possibility the writers would get to everything in the final season but as the hours ran out it became clear a lot of it wouldn't be addressed ever.
So yeah I think it makes it a tad bit cheap in storytelling to do that. While I appreciate a lot of what LOST did for the medium I will say that how it was resolved left a lot to be desired and showed that LOST might have been too complicated seeing as how it got away from the writers.
Maybe there were just a bit too many characters to invest in, maybe there was too many elements introduced into the story resulting in an inability to properly develop all of them, maybe the show was a bit too densely plotted and fast-paced at times resulting in a lack of depth afforded a storyline since the show jumped rapidly from plot to plot to plot in any given hour, maybe the mythology was a bit too complicated even for the writers themselves. Therefore it suggests to me that a more traditional serialized drama might be the way to go with a more modest ensemble, more linear storytelling, more self-contained season long arcs where the writers don't have all this baggage they have to carry across the seasons given the track record for these big mythology shows that so far have failed to keep it together until the very end.
Even the questions they did get to in the final season were underwhelming--who Jacob was, how the smoke monster came to be, the Mystery of the Island, Jacob's reasoning for bringing the survivors here, MIB's reason for being evil, what the whispers were etc.
So I'll admit I have very conflicted feelings about LOST. As a Big Epic Story it fails. As a series viewed as a hodgepodge of mini-narratives where I can pick and choose amongst the better ones i.e. the Oceanic Six storyline it is fairly entertaining but still unsatisfyingly incomplete. As a character drama it had its isolated moments but the final season sadly didn't have very many well thought out character arcs and even fewer satisfying character pay-offs. So the series as a whole is a very mixed bag in my opinion.
I don't see the point in every poster starting their own LOST thread. It seems to me the whole point of a discussion board is to discuss and share opinions. I didn't realize he wanted this thread to only consist of his episode synopsis and nothing else. I figured it would be more productive and spur more conservation to let Odo's thread be a jumping off point for discussion rather than everyone trying to keep up with multiple threads on the same subject and having discussions/comments spread out or repeated.
And you obviously didn't read my posts or you'd realize that I didn't submit myself to 120 hours of torture given that I really enjoyed Seasons 3-5 immensely and raved constantly about them. I can't help it I see a lot of flaws in this final season and as a result the series itself in hindsight. I wanted to judge the show after seeing how everything played out rather than prematurely judging it.
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Possibly just my interpretation, but you don't really seem as interested in discussing the show as you do in posting essays which, at least of late, express your dissatisfaction in a manner which comes across more as factual rather than opinion.
I think it became clear that there was no way they were going to satisfactorily address every question the series raised, and if that's what you were expecting, then of course you were going to be disappointed. And you've made it clear that that's what -you- were looking for, so I don't think there's any reason to rehash it at this point. But if others differ in their assessment they are certainly welcome to say so.
It's not exactly dissimilar from being in a thread where people are enthusiastic about JJTrek only to have someone start regularly posting about how inferior the movie is, perhaps with veiled suggestions that anyone who doesn't feel the same way is somehow lacking.
I think it became clear that there was no way they were going to satisfactorily address every question the series raised, and if that's what you were expecting, then of course you were going to be disappointed. And you've made it clear that that's what -you- were looking for, so I don't think there's any reason to rehash it at this point. But if others differ in their assessment they are certainly welcome to say so.
It's not exactly dissimilar from being in a thread where people are enthusiastic about JJTrek only to have someone start regularly posting about how inferior the movie is, perhaps with veiled suggestions that anyone who doesn't feel the same way is somehow lacking.
Well even the character stuff wasn't all that great either--ignoring the mythology. Sun not able to speak in English. Jin being the Kidnapped Victim all season. A hasty reunion resulting in an abrupt death for both. Claire just acting crazy. Sawyer's arc was only so-so. Kate--well to be fair she never had a worthwhile arc so I'll let this one pass. Sayid was a Zombie influenced by some vague darkness/infection who seems all but lost to it but apparently he can overcome it in the blink of an eye to save the day.--I mean really???? Jack was about the only one with a halfway decent character arc develop over the course of the season.
I won't argue that Sun's aphasia bit was fairly disappointing, but I tend to think her and Jin reuniting only to die so quickly was kind of the point, i.e. they didn't even have time to rejoice in their finding each other before it was taken from them.
I'm not sure what you were expecting with Claire...of course she was going to be crazy after three years with Smocke as her only company. Hell, at least she hasn't gone completely over to the dark side.
I think Sayid was established as a person who was always strongly influenced by the company he was keeping at the time. Shannon and Nadia and the Losties in general were able to bring out the best in him, while Ben, Kelvin and others brought out the worst. He had no sense of self.
Anyway, I think S6 wasn't about giving the characters more development, but about wrapping them up and bringing them to reasonable conclusions based on the development they'd already been given.
I'm not sure what you were expecting with Claire...of course she was going to be crazy after three years with Smocke as her only company. Hell, at least she hasn't gone completely over to the dark side.
I think Sayid was established as a person who was always strongly influenced by the company he was keeping at the time. Shannon and Nadia and the Losties in general were able to bring out the best in him, while Ben, Kelvin and others brought out the worst. He had no sense of self.
Anyway, I think S6 wasn't about giving the characters more development, but about wrapping them up and bringing them to reasonable conclusions based on the development they'd already been given.
Absolutely right.
Well they didn't wrap them up all that well in that case in my opinion.
What other character arc dids we need? They're trying to stop a smoke monster and get off an island. We didn't need anymore development. I knew all of the characters by this point.
Ok, it's time. I'm here with my pizza, and my soda and I'm ready to watch the finale. See you all in a few hours.
The End:
Well, here it is. The end of Lost. My what a journey it's been. We've seen a plane crash, a hatch, a smoke monster, the Dharma Initiative, time travel, nuclear warheads, and big glowing lights. All of that led to here. So, is the finale perfect? In a word: no. That's not the real question, though. This finale is a very satisfactory ending to the show. In the end, this show wasn't about hatches, and monsters, and glowy lights. Those mysteries were all pretty much solved. In the final moments, they didn't matter. This show was about the characters. It was their journey that kept me watching episode after episode. It's only appropriate that the bulk of the finale should not be dedicated to the mysteries, but to the characters that I've come to absolutely love over the course of 121 episodes. It's their fates that I was invested in, not what the deal was with that light.
I was wondering all season what the flash-sideways were leasing up to. I couldn't be happier with the explanation. I was moved to tears on no less than five different occasions. Seeing Claire and Charlie come back together, and Sawyer and Juliet. Jin and Sun remembering their lives together, or in the final moments, with everyone back together again, and Jack and Locke coming together for the first time as friends. Then there's Ben. What an amazing character. He can't go into the church. He knows he's not ready. Is redemption something Ben can ever find? Is it even something he deserves? I wonder if he'll ever find it within himself to join the rest of them, or if his fate lies in forever sitting on that bench, wondering. Who knows? He has an eternity to decide. If there's one thing that holds it back slightly, it's Sayid and Shannon. I never bought that relationship, and hate to see it be the thing that wakes Sayid up. It's an eye-rolling moment in what is otherwise an episode full of emotional ones.
I'll admit, the whole stuff with the light, I really don't understand. It just seems to be there as a plot device to put a timer on things. I was almost convinced that they really were going to end the show with the destruction of the island. They really only used it long enough to have a great climactic battle between Jack and Smocke. All it was missing was a "I..have had...enough...of YOU!" Like I said, though, it's not about the light. I'm sure there's some kind of explanation out there if I think hard enough, or read enough. I loved the moment at the top of the cave, where Jack accosts Smocke for using Locke's form, and says that Locke was right about everything. I'm also disappointed that it's Kate that gets to shoot Smocke. If it couldn't be Jack, then it should have been Ben, or even Sawyer. Ben would have been the most poetic, considering how badly he got played by Smokey. Maybe that's just my own dislike of Kate shining through, though.
Finally, it's up to Jack to make the ultimate sacrifice to restore order to the island. Since Jack is going to die, it falls to Hurley to become the new guardian. It's a fate I know he didn't want, but it seems appropriate. Ben becomes his new number two. This is kinda ironic. Of all the major characters on the show, Ben is the only one that truly gets what he's always wanted. He wanted to be special, and to be valued by Jacob. Now that Hurley is the man in charge, Ben's wish is fulfilled.
The very very end, wow. Jack was never my favorite character. I never disliked him, but he never rose to the top for me. Despite that, I felt his death. Then when Vincent come out of the bamboo and lied down next to Jack so that he wouldn't die alone, well, any self control I had left was gone at that moment. I bawled. The final shot, of Jack's closing eye, is about as perfect a final shot as I can think of. The show is now book-ended by such a shot.
I'll miss having more of this show to watch. I'll miss every single one of these characters (yes, even Kate...a bit.) This is not the end of my thread, though. Not by a long shot. I welcome further discussion. I'll also do a post-mortem about the show as a whole, once I've collected my thoughts a bit. For now, discuss away. You don't need to worry about spoiling me anymore.
Well, here it is. The end of Lost. My what a journey it's been. We've seen a plane crash, a hatch, a smoke monster, the Dharma Initiative, time travel, nuclear warheads, and big glowing lights. All of that led to here. So, is the finale perfect? In a word: no. That's not the real question, though. This finale is a very satisfactory ending to the show. In the end, this show wasn't about hatches, and monsters, and glowy lights. Those mysteries were all pretty much solved. In the final moments, they didn't matter. This show was about the characters. It was their journey that kept me watching episode after episode. It's only appropriate that the bulk of the finale should not be dedicated to the mysteries, but to the characters that I've come to absolutely love over the course of 121 episodes. It's their fates that I was invested in, not what the deal was with that light.
I was wondering all season what the flash-sideways were leasing up to. I couldn't be happier with the explanation. I was moved to tears on no less than five different occasions. Seeing Claire and Charlie come back together, and Sawyer and Juliet. Jin and Sun remembering their lives together, or in the final moments, with everyone back together again, and Jack and Locke coming together for the first time as friends. Then there's Ben. What an amazing character. He can't go into the church. He knows he's not ready. Is redemption something Ben can ever find? Is it even something he deserves? I wonder if he'll ever find it within himself to join the rest of them, or if his fate lies in forever sitting on that bench, wondering. Who knows? He has an eternity to decide. If there's one thing that holds it back slightly, it's Sayid and Shannon. I never bought that relationship, and hate to see it be the thing that wakes Sayid up. It's an eye-rolling moment in what is otherwise an episode full of emotional ones.
I'll admit, the whole stuff with the light, I really don't understand. It just seems to be there as a plot device to put a timer on things. I was almost convinced that they really were going to end the show with the destruction of the island. They really only used it long enough to have a great climactic battle between Jack and Smocke. All it was missing was a "I..have had...enough...of YOU!" Like I said, though, it's not about the light. I'm sure there's some kind of explanation out there if I think hard enough, or read enough. I loved the moment at the top of the cave, where Jack accosts Smocke for using Locke's form, and says that Locke was right about everything. I'm also disappointed that it's Kate that gets to shoot Smocke. If it couldn't be Jack, then it should have been Ben, or even Sawyer. Ben would have been the most poetic, considering how badly he got played by Smokey. Maybe that's just my own dislike of Kate shining through, though.
Finally, it's up to Jack to make the ultimate sacrifice to restore order to the island. Since Jack is going to die, it falls to Hurley to become the new guardian. It's a fate I know he didn't want, but it seems appropriate. Ben becomes his new number two. This is kinda ironic. Of all the major characters on the show, Ben is the only one that truly gets what he's always wanted. He wanted to be special, and to be valued by Jacob. Now that Hurley is the man in charge, Ben's wish is fulfilled.
The very very end, wow. Jack was never my favorite character. I never disliked him, but he never rose to the top for me. Despite that, I felt his death. Then when Vincent come out of the bamboo and lied down next to Jack so that he wouldn't die alone, well, any self control I had left was gone at that moment. I bawled. The final shot, of Jack's closing eye, is about as perfect a final shot as I can think of. The show is now book-ended by such a shot.
I'll miss having more of this show to watch. I'll miss every single one of these characters (yes, even Kate...a bit.) This is not the end of my thread, though. Not by a long shot. I welcome further discussion. I'll also do a post-mortem about the show as a whole, once I've collected my thoughts a bit. For now, discuss away. You don't need to worry about spoiling me anymore.
The finale made me cry so many times! I've watched it 3 times since it aired, and each time I cried more!
At least on rewatch I knew what was coming. The first time I watched it was completely surprising and overwhelming, and I couldn't believe how easily it moved me to tears. I want there to be more LOST, but at the same time I am so happy that it ended the way it did. The finale has the perfect title. It really feels like the end.
At least on rewatch I knew what was coming. The first time I watched it was completely surprising and overwhelming, and I couldn't believe how easily it moved me to tears. I want there to be more LOST, but at the same time I am so happy that it ended the way it did. The finale has the perfect title. It really feels like the end.
I sobbed through the whole second half. I had to wipe off my glasses just so I could see. The final minutes are just heartbreaking. I'm going to watch it again now!
As for the light, all I will say is this: the hatch is a metaphor for the light. Think about it.
As for the light, all I will say is this: the hatch is a metaphor for the light. Think about it.
In light of the finale, Desmomd's story seems even more awesome to me. Eloise told him way back in Season 3 that "Pushing that button is the single greatest thing that you will ever do." Turns out she was right. If he hadn't been stuck in that Hatch, he never would have built up that tolerance to the electromagnetic energy of "the light," and he never would have been able to turn it off to allow them to kill Smokey. He truly was saving the world!
Oh man, I hadn't thought of that. I had just assumed that his tolerance was something that Jacob had done to him. The thought that it was his three years in the swan, with the constant exposure to it in smaller doses, that led to his immunity is pretty awesome.
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