Lost from the beginning (NO SPOILERS)

[startrekwatcher]

No, it would *not* be seeing as these were the exact impressions taken pretty much word for word from my notes I took at the time back in Feb/March of 2007 when I first watched these episodes for the very first time spoiler-free. I didn't read spoiler threads, TV Guide descriptions, listened to L/C podcasts, read Q&As, read script slides or watched the episode trailers. I was probably the most insulated person when it came to LOST information out there deliberately so I wouldn't have it ruined for me so I'm very sensitive to not doing that to Odowankenobi. These were the questions and details running through my mind completely unaware of what was to come back in '07. In fact, if the threads from back then haven't been deleted you can go to "Par Avion" or "Enter 77" and see these same impressions penned that night after the episode aired--so how one can accuse me of leading is ridiculous.

I thought the point of this thread was to share our views with the original poster on these episodes after he had seen the episode in question and point out stuff he may have not picked up on while at the same time not spoiling stuff that is yet to come. I mean a LOST episode is densely plotted with a lot of information to assimilate I was just sharing what I took away from it that he might not have picked up on.

Geez I don't know what is Aragorn or DonIago's problems--especially Aragorn who is determined to be a smart ass and thread police all in one when it comes to my posts. Let Odowankenobi decide if my posts are supposedly too revealing and you stick to policing your moronic boob threads in Gen/TV media.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Doesn't seem too spoilerific to me. Long winded, perhaps. Maybe dial it back just a little bit. I'm the one giving my thoughts on the episodes. While I appreciate and encourage discussion, a massively in depth post for every episode is a little unnecessary. Also, stop getting defensive and insulting.

The Man From Tallahassee:

Ah, finally! The flashback I've been waiting for: How Locke ended up in the wheelchair. Of course, it has something to do with his persistent daddy issues. In a way, it's his own fault. He couldn't leave well enough alone. Anthony is also changed from manipulative bastard to outright murderer, and attempted murderer. A fall like that, though, it's amazing Locke even survived.

Now to the island: Kate and Sayid end up captured. Thankfully, no cages this time. Locke, however, finds his way into Ben's room and holds him and Alex at gunpoint. I want to pause here a second and talk about Ben. I havn't yet entirely gotten a handle on his character, but I know one thing: He scares the crap out of me. Even when facing down the barrel of Locke's gun, I still feel like Ben is the one in control. He seems like he's always one step ahead of everyone else. It's true, actually. Locke plays right into Ben's hands in taking the C4 and destroying the submarine. He doesn't have to keep his promise to Jack and Juliet, so he doesn't appear weak, but he doesn't go back on his word either, since it was Locke that destroyed it. This has to be the end of any good will between Jack and Locke. These two are enemies from this day forth.

Ben is also concerned that he hasn't healed yet. The island has made Locke walk again, and healed Rose's cancer, but Ben is still stuck in a wheelchair. Is it a matter of faith? What makes one person heal and one person not? Well, the discussion doesn't finish, as Ben leads Locke to the titular Man From Tallahassee. It's Anthony Cooper. WTF?

 

[DonIago]

I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of the next episode.

Enjoying the vicarious ride btw, and glad you seem to be as well!

 

[McCoy]

Emerson definitely makes Ben an awesomely intriguing character to watch. Keeps the viewer off balance. Mad acting skillz!

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Oh, one other thing I wanted to add. This exchange cracked me up:

Locke: The Man from Tallahasee? What's that, a code?
Ben: No, John. we don't have a code for "there's a man in my closet with a gun to my daughter's head," but obviously we should.

 

[McCoy]

Locke and Ben together are always fantastic. The actors really bring their 'A' game in their scenes together.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

Exposé:

This is clearly the most important episode of the series. Almost every single mystery of the show is wrapped up here. I was thrilled by the revelations that Ben is actually Locke's second cousin. The reveal of the smoke monster as Vincent was handled perfectly. Who could have guessed that the Dharma initiative was actually founded by a time traveling Walt?

Oh wait. None of that happened.

Instead we spend the whole episode with Nikki and Paulo before they die. Um....who are they, again? Why do I care? They killed a guy over some diamonds, spent the whole time on the island looking for said diamonds, then attacked each other for the diamonds. Then they were mistaken for dead, and buried alive. Well, that's dark.

I read a little behind the scenes on this one. They were killed off because of fan backlash toward them. Wow, the fans are a vicious bunch. They appeared in, like, two episodes. They even do anything in those two episodes. What did they do to deserve such hatred?

This whole episode was just kinda pointless. It was a whole episode based around killing off two characters that I didn't care about. I didn't even have time to care about them. There's practically nothing of them. Let's get back to the action now, ok?

Oh wait, there was some Billy Dee Williams playing himself. Ok, the hour isn't a total loss.

 

[DonIago]

As part of the greater series the episode is eminently disposable.

On its own terms...it's a heck of a lot of fun, especially since, as noted, its primary point is to eliminate two characters TPTB made the mistake of trying to foist upon us.

Plus it paves the way for the zombie invasion that will come...

 

[sidious618]

In a way, it's his own fault. He couldn't leave well enough alone.

Bah, Locke was trying to save some poor mother and son from destruction. More proof of Locke's awesomeness.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

As part of the greater series the episode is eminently disposable.

On its own terms...it's a heck of a lot of fun, especially since, as noted, its primary point is to eliminate two characters TPTB made the mistake of trying to foist upon us.

Plus it paves the way for the zombie invasion that will come...

Eh, true. It's not at all necessary to the arc. Honestly, had Nikki and Paulo just disappeared into the background, I wouldn't have noticed. The fact that TPTB decided to kill them off in such a morbid fashion, and dedicate an entire episode to doing so is rather humorous. This is nowhere near the worst episode of the series. It's just a little irrelevant when there's so much other stuff going on.

 

[DonIago]

It's a sign of the troubled nature of S3 that an episode where two little-more-than-extras get offed is still more entertaining than certain episodes revolving around primary characters.

That being said, killing Paolo reduced the Hot Guy Quotient of the show. Grumble.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

^Well, hey. Killing Nikki reduced the hot girl quotient, too.

 

[Hunter X]

I found it kind of fun seeing certain events through their eyes, seeing Shannon, Boone and Arzt again, and having Sun find out that Charlie's the one who dragged her off through the jungle. You may not get this sense watching on DVD, but I remember when it was a big question whether or not Sun, and especially Jin, would ever find out about that as it could mean dire consequences for Charlie.

On the other hand, the most frustrating thing about Expose is that it follows The Man From Tallahassee and its cliffhanger. The showrunners actually came out and told us how long it would be before we saw the follow-up on that one, and while I'll be cautious and not give away how many episodes you'll have to wait, let's just say that it was very annoying, especially on a weekly broadcast schedule.

 

[Orac Zen]

My biggest problem with Paolo and Nikki was that they were boring. Incredibly so. Whatever TPTB were trying to prove with the ham-fisted way they introduced these new "background" characters, then wasting an episode killing them off, I don't know, but it represented a pretty major misstep on their part. Hunter X makes a good point about seeing their viewpoint of some things but it didn't make up for the sheer dullness they brought to every scene they were in.

I still don't get why some people loathed them so much. They were too damned dull to waste much emotion on.

 

[OdoWanKenobi]

The thing I really don't understand is: They were never "forced" on us. They didn't take any valuable time away from other characters. They didn't do anything. They appeared in barely a handful of episodes. They were not at the forefront of any of them. Exposé was the first time they had any kid of substantial screen time, yet that episode was brought about through massive fan hatred. Why? What on Earth did they do? Hell, they were hardly around long enough for people to learn their names!

 

[Daosx]

The thing I really don't understand is: They were never "forced" on us. They didn't take any valuable time away from other characters. They didn't do anything. They appeared in barely a handful of episodes. They were not at the forefront of any of them. Exposé was the first time they had any kid of substantial screen time, yet that episode was brought about through massive fan hatred. Why? What on Earth did they do? Hell, they were hardly around long enough for people to learn their names!

You're not taking into account the amount of time between seasons, episodes, and the commentary from fans and producers between. We weren't all fortunate enough to watch the next episode at our leisure. Season two ended on May 24th 2006, and Expose aired March 28th 2007. There was a whole lot of chatter in between. Behind the scenes, it really did feel like Nikki and Paulo were being forced upon us, with the producers telling us about these exciting new charactors that were there the whole time! They were hated before they even appeared on screen. Combine that with them being so damn boring, and the general dislike for the first half of season three, Expose came off as a sacrafice to the fans. A "We understand your frustration, we're listening, and we're determined to make it better. We'll even kill these two in the worst possible way as a peace offering, just bear with us" Nikki and Paulo represent everything wrong with season 3.

 

[DonIago]

One has to wonder whether there's any way "extra" characters could have entered the foreground -without- arousing the fans' ire by this point in the show's run.

As I imagine most Lost fans have, every once in a while I wonder how I'd fare under similar circumstances, and as much as I'd love to think I'd make it to primary character status, I'm left with the feeling I'd end up as one of the redshirts.

Actually, being gay and all, I suppose my chances of making it to primary character status are better than average. Go diversity!

 

[McCoy]

I think it was just a failed experiment. If you can bring forward new characters you can kill off old ones. Increases stakes for everyone. Tricky on a deserted island to say hey these people were always here, though. In practice viewers are like, if they were important why didnt we see them before. nice in theory but it just didnt work

 

[Hunter X]

All of those other survivors were always a tricky aspect of Lost. Before Nikki and Paulo, I remember people wanting to see more of what the other 40 or so people were up to while Jack and company got to do all the cool stuff. It just seemed weird that there weren't more people getting involved in some of the adventures. I also think that some fans thought there was the potential for some Battlestar Galactica-style development, where you have regular background characters who slowly grow in prominence and development over the course of the show.

Problem is, TPTB didn't build the foundation for this by having consistent background characters. They kind of tried in season one, with hypochondriac guy and Arzt, but they dropped the former after one episode and the latter in rather spectacular fashion. By the time they tried it with Nikki and Paulo it was too late. No one cared about seeing the background characters anymore; we didn't want the writers to waste a minute on anything but the Dharma Initiative, the Others, the Smoke Monster, what made the Island so special, etc. The only success they had with this was in Rose and Bernard.

 

[Lindley]

And perhaps Frogurt.