Lost 6x14: "The Candidate"

[startrekwatcher]

Lemme ask you guys a question. How would you guys have handled this episode and the death of these characters? Knowing what you know that everybodys fate looks pretty grim.

I had no issue with the way the characters were killed off. Rarely has LOST been a show where a character death--even a major one--wasn't treated as a plot point. They haven't been treated the way most traditional dramas treate character deaths with more depth and with a little more time to dwell on it . Here it just happens and is all about how it advances the Bigger Picture--not much time for grieving or character reactions--you fill that stuff in yourself which really at times isn't that satisfying because we are already moving on to something else.

The island treats the characters as expendable chess pieces and so do the writers. But that isn't a criticism that's just LOST's style.

 

[Jono]

Do you think the reason Sayid was able to be redeemed was because he was outside of NotLockes influence? He seamed a different man on the sub, no longer a zombie.

At that point Sayid realised that NotLocke's promise to reunite him with Nadia were crap or just pushed Sayid over that edge that Desmond guided him to with what he said to Sayid.

Gave it an excellent. Did not see the deaths coming. Sayid I never thought would live to the end after he went evil, but I actually thought that Sun and Jin would probably be one of the few to live to the end and probably the only ones who leave the Island. Though only Jin surviving might be an issue as he has been "dead" for three years and I don't think Sun's parents like him much, which means a semi-happy ending with him and his daughter was unlikely.

That is despite the fact that the sub plan doesn't make a lot of sense. It relies entirely on Kate getting shot to get Jack on the sub. An easier plan would have been to left everyone get on the plane and tell Jack that since he is staying he should go through the insides of the plane for supplies. They turn on the plane, it explodes and everyone is dead.

I guess NotLocke might have planned to "betray" them at the submarine anyway. He shoots Kate and lets Jack or Sawyer beat him up or drive him away and lets them retreat in the sub. However, other people turn up and shoot Kate and Jake gets on the sub anyway.

As for Jack's rambo. Given what he believes concerning the Island not letting him die I can forgive his bravado and accept that the bullets missed because the Island was still not done with him yet.

 

[Jetfire]

Excellent.

 

[coolghoul]

Poor

If killing off four main characters is the writer's way of ending this, I am extremely disappointed. I never watched BSG, so I won't get those references, but this was just horrible writing. If they weren't dying, they were spitting out heavy handed dialogue in heavy handed scenes.

You are assuming the show ends on this reality, which I don't think it will. They are alive in the other reality.




Well, looks like Smokey is getting his way, if they are right and he has to KILL all the candidates to get off the Island, then he is doing a pretty good job of that right now! NOT good! They are playing right into his hand.

First - what you said - As I've said on one of the theory threads, the flash-sideways is the reality that will continue in my opinion. And we are already watching that good things are in store for the characters we love.

Tho' I am still confused by how the sideways Locke praises Anthony Cooper. Is he lying in some way?

It's interesting tho' - I don't quite understand the rules. The candidates can kill themselves. But then Alpert can't kill himself. But he has to get a candidate to kill him? (when he asks Jack to help him kill himself). Can Alpert be killed by anybody other than a candidate? Can he be killed by MIB (I think not - otherwise the MIB would have done it)? Also, when Jack and Alpert actually experiment with the fuse on the TNT, they do not die. Why is that? According to the current theory, the candidates *can* kill themselves. (Assuming Sawyer's harebrained action actually caused the bomb to go off. Rather than the timer alone (which Jack thought would not be able to kill them)). Or they can kill each other but not themselves. I am confused by the rules. Can anybody think this thru and still have everything explained?

So - assuming that MIB wants to kill all of them why doesn't he get them on the plane and blow up the plane? Why does he actually warn them not to go on the plane? There's either something there or the writers are waving their hands saying 'move along, nothing to see here'. Is it perhaps that Locke does not want to kill Claire?

Also how does SmokeyLocke know that people survived? Can he tell how *many* survived? Is he going to make sure about Desmond?

Oh - And people died!! (But they still have a chance of making something of their lives in the flash-sideways universe. At least that's what I think).

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Above Average. I'm willing to reserve judgment to see how it plays into the overall arc of the series.

This article gives some insight into what the producers were actually thinking in regards to the events in last night's episode. Apparently the main intent was to make not-Locke's intentions clear.

My kneejerk reaction to not-Locke's overall plan was that it didn't make sense. Even Widmore was convinced he really was trying to leave the island. Then when I thought about it more, I realized something bad probably would have happened if he left the island, but that this was never his intention. This is what makes it a good plan.

One point bugs me- how does not-Lock, this ancient being, know how to build a bomb out of C4 and a wristwatch?

A Long Con, you might say?

 

[McCoy]

It crossed my mind that maybe there is no alternate timeline and we're seeing ghosts still on the island.

Arrgghh, don't say that!! If we start hearing dialogue in the alt-timeline that aligns with things we've been hearing the whispers say...

If it does turn out to be this, well I have been saying for a couple years now that the viewers guessed purgatory during season 1 and Darlton's had to deny it for years, only to have it actually be true in the end.

HA!!

 

[startrekwatcher]

From the article linked above. After just reading it I'm a little stunned at the reasoning for some of their creative decisions.

“[But] the story always comes first.”

That I agree with--it has always been the motto of this show.

“In many ways, the season was structured as a long con on behalf of the Man In Black. Once we revealed that Locke was the Monster, we knew the audience would immediately mistrust him, and we would have to spend at least a dozen episodes of Locke trying to convince the audience that he did not have malevolent intention, that all he wanted to do was get off The Island.

I can't speak for anyone else but I never once thought he was anything but malevolent so all the effort all season to trick me was a waste.

Lindelof explains: “Sayid’s entire season-long arc has basically been, if you tell him that he is evil, you can convince him he is evil. But if you tell him he is good, maybe you can convince him he is good. We basically decided that in a moment of pure instinct, if he did something, if he sacrificed his own life in favor of saving the other people’s lives, that would convey to the audience, ‘This guy was actually a good guy.’”

That was it?!? I felt like I just read something that would come from Heroes' Tim Kring. That just sounds so very lame and unsatisfying.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

i still wonder if we will ever get to see MiB physically transform into a cloud of black smoke on screen, if not next week's episode, then most certainly hope the finale. I really hope it's not Black Smoke shooting in and out of his mouth, otherwise I would call that a blatant ripoff from Supernatural, hahaha, but then again Lost aired first I think.

 

[Jenee]

I'm not feeling the depth of emotional loss for the characters that others are. I still have to see the show, but ... I don't know, the emotional investment in the characters has been taken away now that we know they are all pawns.

I liked Sun and Jin - and Sayid. But, I'm not as upset as I would have been at the end of last season.

 

[Agent Richard07]

One point bugs me- how does not-Lock, this ancient being, know how to build a bomb out of C4 and a wristwatch?

Maybe he absorbed someone's knowlege of bomb-making.

 

[startrekwatcher]

i still wonder if we will ever get to see MiB physically transform into a cloud of black smoke on screen, if not next week's episode, then most certainly hope the finale. I really hope it's not Black Smoke shooting in and out of his mouth, otherwise I would call that a blatant ripoff from Supernatural, hahaha, but then again Lost aired first I think.

We already saw how it happens back in season 3 when he transformed into Eko's brother. I'm sure it is the same thing. I am much more interested in the story of how he came to be transformed from a human once upon a time into the smoke monster. Was he a member of the ancient civilization that built all the structures on the island and was punished for some reason? A person brought to the island by Jacob and transformed for some reason?

 

[McCoy]

It's interesting tho' - I don't quite understand the rules. The candidates can kill themselves. But then Alpert can't kill himself. But he has to get a candidate to kill him? (when he asks Jack to help him kill himself). Can Alpert be killed by anybody other than a candidate? Can he be killed by MIB (I think not - otherwise the MIB would have done it)? Also, when Jack and Alpert actually experiment with the fuse on the TNT, they do not die. Why is that? According to the current theory, the candidates *can* kill themselves. (Assuming Sawyer's harebrained action actually caused the bomb to go off. Rather than the timer alone (which Jack thought would not be able to kill them)). Or they can kill each other but not themselves. I am confused by the rules. Can anybody think this thru and still have everything explained?

I don't think they can kill themselves, but they can kill each other. Since Sawyer is the one who ultimately triggered the bomb, he probably would have survived the sinking even if no one else did. I think that may be why Locke knew they weren't all dead i.e. whoever tried to disarm the bomb would survive, and he'd have to find a way to get that person killed. If we come to see that even though he knew someone survived, he didn't know who, then that theory may hold water.

Speaking of water, I guess Locke can't change into Smokey when he's wet. Nice guess by Sawyer. Hope Jack remembers that.

 

[Ryan8bit]

From the article linked above:

But the crew was considerate and made the water warm for us, in more ways than one.

They peed in it!?

 

[LitmusDragon]

From the article linked above:

But the crew was considerate and made the water warm for us, in more ways than one.

They peed in it!?

Yeah, this is information I really didn't need to know.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

oh man, bunch of grips, gaffers and camera crew just pissin' in the pool

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

While upset over the deaths, I found Sun and Jin's death together very much in the vain of Korean dramas. Just when you think there's going to be a happy ending...there isn't. And after my kneejerk reaction, I love that the writer's had the guts to do something like that.

Now if they touch Bernard and Rose...they's be askin' for trouble.

 

[spinnerlys]

I liked it, even though I'm only watching to find out what the series is all about. There is really no emotional investment from my side so I don't care who dies or who doesn't anymore.

I just watch the episode a second time, and am baffled on how stupid Kate and James are during the attack on the cages scene. The guard is knocked down and lying in front of the cage, while Kate tries to get to the keys. Obviously for dramatic reasons she can't reach the keys, as she has not really long arms. But the guard has at least one arm that is so close, that she or James could grab it and drag that guard closer to them in order to get the keys. But no, both don't think of that. Stupid.

And one other thing, they could lie down in order to get a longer arm, to eliminate the angle issue.

 

[Jenee]

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Ryan8bit]

I was thinking that Lapidus was gonna say, "Get out outta the way shortarms," but instead he just started kicking things.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

And apparently another door exacted revenge

too soon?