Lost 6x09: "Ab Aeterno"

[exodus]

- When Richard first sees Isabella on the ship, we hear the smoke monster sounds in the distance. They appear to be separate entities. How is it that Richard saw her ghost? Is this possibly similar to how Christian appeared?

Everyone seems to be assuming that MiB and Christian are one and the same, even though this has actually never been proven.

And if all the dead people are manifestations of MiB, who/what is Hurley seeing?

Easy explanation is that Christian and MiB are not the same entity. And neither is the Isabella that appeared to Richard and MiB the same entity.

Instead, they're dead. Get it? Dead, as in ghosts. Maybe everything won't have a pseudo-scientific explanation.

If Isabella is a ghost, why would she scream at the sight of Smokey?

I can't recall but has Hurley seen ghosts while Miles is around?

 

[Ryan8bit]

- When Richard first sees Isabella on the ship, we hear the smoke monster sounds in the distance. They appear to be separate entities. How is it that Richard saw her ghost? Is this possibly similar to how Christian appeared?

Everyone seems to be assuming that MiB and Christian are one and the same, even though this has actually never been proven.

And if all the dead people are manifestations of MiB, who/what is Hurley seeing?

Easy explanation is that Christian and MiB are not the same entity. And neither is the Isabella that appeared to Richard and MiB the same entity.

Instead, they're dead. Get it? Dead, as in ghosts. Maybe everything won't have a pseudo-scientific explanation.

I don't discount that Christian and Smokey are different, but at the time of the premiere, it didn't seem such a bad theory. If they are separate, you just have to kinda wonder what the hell is going on. There's really nothing to speculate on and it's all just wild guesses.

Also, if Isabella was a ghost, how come Richard could see her then, when he couldn't do so in the future?

 

[Checkmate]

I can't recall but has Hurley seen ghosts while Miles is around?

Miles was looking right at Hurley when he was talking to Isabella at the camp.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Everyone seems to be assuming that MiB and Christian are one and the same, even though this has actually never been proven.

The fact that Christian has shown up off the island only proves that they're not the same, since Smokey is stuck there.

Exactly. But did dead Christian ever appear off the island before the original Oceanic plane crashed? If no, could it be possible that the Oceanic 6 never left the "island" at all because they're dead?

 

[The Habs Fan]

- When Richard first sees Isabella on the ship, we hear the smoke monster sounds in the distance. They appear to be separate entities. How is it that Richard saw her ghost? Is this possibly similar to how Christian appeared?

Everyone seems to be assuming that MiB and Christian are one and the same, even though this has actually never been proven.

And if all the dead people are manifestations of MiB, who/what is Hurley seeing?

Easy explanation is that Christian and MiB are not the same entity. And neither is the Isabella that appeared to Richard and MiB the same entity.

Instead, they're dead. Get it? Dead, as in ghosts. Maybe everything won't have a pseudo-scientific explanation.

I don't discount that Christian and Smokey are different, but at the time of the premiere, it didn't seem such a bad theory. If they are separate, you just have to kinda wonder what the hell is going on. There's really nothing to speculate on and it's all just wild guesses.

Also, if Isabella was a ghost, how come Richard could see her then, when he couldn't do so in the future?

Good point.

But let's assume for a moment that MiB and all the dead people are one and the same. Who does Hurley see? I'm pretty sure what Hurley sees is not MiB.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Everyone seems to be assuming that MiB and Christian are one and the same, even though this has actually never been proven.

The fact that Christian has shown up off the island only proves that they're not the same, since Smokey is stuck there.

so what about Ana Lucia or Charlie or Libby who appeared in Michael's episode, I think it was Meet Kevin Johnson. Unless MiB can astral project himself like Walt did meaning he doesn't technically have to leave the island. Ahh who knows. I bet we'll see an origin story of MiB, Jacob and the island at some point down within the next 7 episodes

 

[The Habs Fan]

Everyone seems to be assuming that MiB and Christian are one and the same, even though this has actually never been proven.

The fact that Christian has shown up off the island only proves that they're not the same, since Smokey is stuck there.

so what about Ana Lucia or Charlie or Libby who appeared in Michael's episode, I think it was Meet Kevin Johnson.

This again happened after Michael got off the island.

Has there been any instances of dead people appearing to the losties before they originally crashed?

 

[Beagleman]

In terms of thematic themes of love, do you guys think this episode was on par with The Constant, with Penny and Desmond?

I thought so wich kind of suprised me because with Des and Penny there was such a long build up. I think Nestor Carbonell's acting and Michael Giacchino's brilliant score for this episode are what made it resonate on a really emotional level.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

yea.....could we perhaps see an Emmy nod, based off this one performance for Senior Carbonell?

 

[Mr Awe]

Above average, very nearly an Excellent.

I finally feel like some of the end pieces are falling into place. We know what the ultimate goal is and the context for it. Jacob brought candidates to the island to replace him. Why? To keep the evil smoke monster contained in the strange magnetic bottle that is the island. Richard became his helper to influence those he brought.

Strangeness. Jacob doesn't want to influence people directly. I get the bit about if he has to tell them what is good, it's meaningless. However, if the real point is to keep Smokey locked up, well, who cares. Influence people to keep smokie locked up then! He did bring Richard aboard to help him out in that department though.

Why is Jacob so friendly towards Smokie, seemingly oblivious and then surprised that Smokie tried to kill him in order to escape? Is Jacob that far removed from logic?

Why did Richard bury the cross, that just did not seem realistic that he'd bury the last physical reminder of his wife. I suppose he either lost faith or did not feel worthy of the faith. I suppose he felt lost, which is why he was willing to follow someone else, Smokie, then Jacob.

So, Jacob brings people to the island regardless of the consequences to those travelling with them. A bit extreme. The ends justifies the mean? Saving the world makes it ok to hijack innocent people? Yet, he doesn't want to bother to interfere with them once they're on the island. Okaaaay.

Finally, a prediction, which candidate will be selected. It'll be Sawyer. Why? Because that's the most remarkable story arc. Sawyer, the loner, who is "with no one" will for some reason maroon himself on the island for the rest of his life in order to save the world from Smokey. I don't quite know how it'll get to that point but part of the reason is that he has less to go back to than the others.

Mr Awe

 

[Seven of Five]

Maybe not as good as The Constant IMO, as that episode had a lot of emotional build-up from season two onwards until Des and Penny finally got in touch with each other.

This episode was definately a classic though, and I'd hope Carbonell will be recognised with a nod. I'll probably watch it again this week, which I haven't done since the premiere.

Ahh who knows. I bet we'll see an origin story of MiB, Jacob and the island at some point down within the next 7 episodes

I think this could happen, as long as some mysticism remains. I know we've had significant reveals of Jacob and MIB's intentions, but I don't think that's the be all and all of it. It doesn't have to be wrapped in a neat bow or anything. Or perhaps it already has been and I'm being too obtuse?

All this talk of Christian has really got me racking my brain. It's simple to connect the dots and say he was Smokey, but he appeared off the island, which Smokey can't do. Is he working for Jacob? Or does he have a role totally independent of the two forces we know of? I suppose he could be a manifestation of the island istelf. I'm not totally sure about that, but Locke was always on about being connected to the island in some way.

 

[Mr Awe]

So, the Island is a cork, and keeps the "evil" from spreading. Jacob is like God and the MIB like the Devil. Interesting analogies. I still want to learn actually what they are though, cause Jacob said he wasn't able to bring back Richard's wife, only give him eternal life. Can't wait to find out more.

I don't think we'll ever learn the specifics. I don't think either will be god or devil. It seems like Smokey is more evil while Jacob is more good. However, neither is completely good or bad. Jacob harms people by yanking them to the island. Jacob cares for those under his protection.

In the end, we're all lost to a degree. We find ourselves in whatever circumstances that we get thrust into. We want answers. If we don't have them, we look for others that do. Or, at least seem like they have the answers. They probably have no more answers than us though.

For example, Jacobs knowledge is very limited. He knows he needs a replacement but he doens't know who, so he has the rigamarole of the candidates and bring them to the island. He doesn't know who it is though. He doesn't know basic things like that Smokey will want to kill him even though it's obvious. He couldn't even understand why he might want to get involved with the people he brings to the island until Richard explained it to him! Yet, Richard worked for a very long time under Jacob thinking that Jacob knew things!

In the end, all you can do is stay true to yourself and your values. Try do do no harm. Care for others. Etc. Just do your best. You'll never know everything. There will always be uncertainties that effect how you make decisions and the outcomes of those decisions.

Mr Awe

 

[Hermiod]

An Above Average from me.

This didn't quite push all the right buttons for me for some reason. Perhaps I'm just not used to Lost giving up quite so many answers in one episode.

 

[chrisspringob]

Seems like picking a date that recent really screws up a lot of things. If the date said 1687, would have all fit together much better (minus the Pacific ocean bit).

Except for the part about there being dynamite on the ship. Dynamite was invented in 1867.

Everyone seems to be assuming that MiB and Christian are one and the same, even though this has actually never been proven.

The fact that Christian has shown up off the island only proves that they're not the same, since Smokey is stuck there.

But as I said before, when Jacob explains the wine bottle analogy, the Island is the cork, not the bottle that the wine is contained in. I still think it's possible that the wine bottle--the thing that Smokey is trapped in--is the entire Earth, or our entire timeline, and the Island is simply the cork that he's trying to remove to get to wherever he wants to go.

EDIT: In fact, in "The Substitute", MiB describes Jacob's role as having been the protector of the Island, that he was trying to protect the Island from something. If the Island itself is the prison, then that doesn't make sense. If the Island is the portal through which he has to stop MiB from going to leave the Earth, then it makes sense. It's not the prison that you protect. It's the cell door that leads to the outside world.

 

[LitmusDragon]

Ahh who knows. I bet we'll see an origin story of MiB, Jacob and the island at some point down within the next 7 episodes

I think this could happen, as long as some mysticism remains.

Spoiler: Jacob / MiB origin (minor spoiler)

Their origin story has already been confirmed as being in a future episode.

Spoiler: more specifics (not-so-minor spoilers)

The episode will show them as young children arriving at the island in 62 A.D. MiB's mother will also be in the episode.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Here's another one:

James
John
Jack

Are all originated from the name Jacob.

Does anyone know if there's an English translation for the name "Jin"?

No, they aren't.

James is derived from Jacob (via French, Late Latin and New Testament Greek), which is from the Hebrew יעקב or Y'akov.
John is derived from the Hebrew יוחנן or Yochanan (ch as in Bach).
Jack is derived from German and French versions of the name John and is often used as a nickname for those named "John." It is sometimes used as a nickname for those named "Jakob" but far less frequently.

 

[Checkmate]

Everyone seems to be assuming that MiB and Christian are one and the same, even though this has actually never been proven.

The fact that Christian has shown up off the island only proves that they're not the same, since Smokey is stuck there.

But as I said before, when Jacob explains the wine bottle analogy, the Island is the cork, not the bottle that the wine is contained in. I still think it's possible that the wine bottle--the thing that Smokey is trapped in--is the entire Earth, or our entire timeline, and the Island is simply the cork that he's trying to remove to get to wherever he wants to go.

EDIT: In fact, in "The Substitute", MiB describes Jacob's role as having been the protector of the Island, that he was trying to protect the Island from something. If the Island itself is the prison, then that doesn't make sense. If the Island is the portal through which he has to stop MiB from going to leave the Earth, then it makes sense. It's not the prison that you protect. It's the cell door that leads to the outside world.

There's no reason at all for Smokey to be "stuck" on the island then. Why be in a small, isolated location when he can be out influencing the entire planet to destroy Jacob and/or the island? And why would Jacob need to bring people to the island if Smokey wasn't restrained there?

Oh, and by the way, ten bucks says the name of Smokey's mother is Pandora.

 

[Trippy]

James is derived from Jacob (via French, Late Latin and New Testament Greek), which is from the Hebrew יעקב or Y'akov.

That's why Sawyer is the big damn hero of Lost

 

[chrisspringob]

The fact that Christian has shown up off the island only proves that they're not the same, since Smokey is stuck there.

But as I said before, when Jacob explains the wine bottle analogy, the Island is the cork, not the bottle that the wine is contained in. I still think it's possible that the wine bottle--the thing that Smokey is trapped in--is the entire Earth, or our entire timeline, and the Island is simply the cork that he's trying to remove to get to wherever he wants to go.

EDIT: In fact, in "The Substitute", MiB describes Jacob's role as having been the protector of the Island, that he was trying to protect the Island from something. If the Island itself is the prison, then that doesn't make sense. If the Island is the portal through which he has to stop MiB from going to leave the Earth, then it makes sense. It's not the prison that you protect. It's the cell door that leads to the outside world.

There's no reason at all for Smokey to be "stuck" on the island then. Why be in a small, isolated location when he can be out influencing the entire planet to destroy Jacob and/or the island? And why would Jacob need to bring people to the island if Smokey wasn't restrained there?

I don't know. Maybe the Island can only be destroyed once Jacob is killed, and Jacob can only be killed by people who were brought to the Island by Jacob, or who were designated by Jacob as leaders of the Others???

All I'm saying is that if the writers' intention was that the Island is MiB's prison, then they did a crappy job of explaining it in the wine bottle analogy. If that's what they meant, then they should have said that the wine bottle is the Island and the cork is Jacob himself.

 

[Gertch]

(Now waiting for somebody to come here and tell me somehow this was based on some real event. )

Island disappears