Lorca is a coward and murderer, how come he's a Starfleet Captain still??

[Prax]

Shhh, this is the "Lorca doesn't get the benefit of the doubt" thread. He knew exactly what was going to happen to her, because he's, I don't know, a psychic. And evil. Evil psychic.

He knew what he was doing. Did he feel bad? Sure. Definitely, in fact, but Lorca is the ultimate pragmatist, and pragmatic strategist. He was trying to dissuade her from the moment she came on board, using all the tools. He likely succeeded, or at least made for a good delaying action.

Then he messed up, and set her off. He resorts to begging, searching for sympathy. No dice, but fortune lands in his lap again, and Lorca is not a wasteful man. Sarek is too ill. "Well, aren't we lucky we have this Admiral aboard?"

Admiral? didn't they specifically not want Starfleet at this peace talk? She goes anyway, apparently in a shuttle with no back up. I'd like to assume she knows this is all wrong. She says to Lorca "When I get back..." She doesn't want to take his ship away. If she did, she could have done it then. No, she wants the delaying action, too. The admiral is aware of the truth, but loathes the ugly part of taking action, and following through on what she now knows/feels to be necessary.

And then witness the proof of all this, that the writers toss in our own laps, when Lorca gets the news that she's been captured by these barbaric monsters; the same monsters that he killed his own crew over in order to save them from.

 

[Feron]

I bet one's from an agonizer. Lorca died on the Buran. This one came from the Mirror universe ... which is why he sleeps with a phaser under his pillow.

Lorca has very good reason to keep a Phaser close by at all times.

He was kidnapped off of a Federation shuttle after attending a meeting with Federation Admirals. The Klingons killed his pilot and addressed him by name. How did the Klingons know where to find him? One of the most likely explanations is that someone very high up in Starfleet sold him out.

It ain't paranoia if there really are people out to get you, and there are most definitely people out to get Lorca. And he obviously is very aware of that.

 

[ralfy]

That's one weird character: paranoid about anyone finding out about the ship but starts talking about it to a POW he doesn't know, looks like a tough character but accepts snarky remarks from Stamets, makes POW chief as if there's no one else to consider on board, doesn't go by the book and then suddenly chooses to do so (unless he has some hidden agenda).

Then again the whole series appears to thrive on the dysfunctional.

 

[Noname Given]

That's one weird character: paranoid about anyone finding out about the ship but starts talking about it to a POW he doesn't know, looks like a tough character but accepts snarky remarks from Stamets, makes POW chief as if there's no one else to consider on board, doesn't go by the book and then suddenly chooses to do so (unless he has some hidden agenda).

Then again the whole series appears to thrive on the dysfunctional.

Um, it was part of the conversational 'nuggets' he used to confirm that if the Klingons had the cell bugged in some fashion (Although why he needed to confirm it is a bit strange because given it was a 'prison ship' - you'd think all the cells would be bugged (and have cameras to boot.)

 

[Ithekro]

Of course if the Admiral was working with the Klingons, they just sent her home to report in.

 

[Gonzo]

Lorca has very good reason to keep a Phaser close by at all times.

He was kidnapped off of a Federation shuttle after attending a meeting with Federation Admirals. The Klingons killed his pilot and addressed him by name. How did the Klingons know where to find him? One of the most likely explanations is that someone very high up in Starfleet sold him out.

It ain't paranoia if there really are people out to get you, and there are most definitely people out to get Lorca. And he obviously is very aware of that.

That shuttle grab of Lorca was very suspicious, how did they know the route and timing of his departure.

No flag officers should ever travel around in rinky dink shuttles at any time, especially during a war.

 

[cultcross]

Lorca isn't a flag officer

 

[Gonzo]

Lorca isn't a flag officer

I was thinking of the Admiral when I was typing but point taken, should have just been officers.

 

[cultcross]

With Lorca there is a risk to balance - is he, or the drive, more worthy of protection? I suspect Starfleet would put him at risk rather than the spore drive. Although, that's slightly buggered by the fact the drive ship then goes to rescue him... sigh.

 

[cooleddie74]

Lorca, much like Captain Ron Tracey a decade later, may be an example of a Starfleet captain who shouldn't be in command of a starship but nevertheless is because he possesses certain skills and talents that his classmates or competitors in the command track don't. Lorca would never survive for long as a starship captain in the Picard era and the Starfleet brass of the late 24th century would remove him from command the minute he pulled even half the things he does in this series, but in the mid-23rd century and in the wake of crises and historic events like the Battle of Axanar it's clear that the Starfleet of this era operates on a larger grading curve and is willing to tolerate more questionable behavior from its high-ranking officers to get jobs done.

A captain sleeping with a charged phaser under his pillow might seem like paranoia and grounds for a competency hearing in TNG, but in this era of Federation history? Eh. Not so much. Not after what he's experienced.

 

[Gonzo]

Lorca, much like Captain Ron Tracey a decade later, may be an example of a Starfleet captain who shouldn't be in command of a starship but nevertheless is because he possesses certain skills and talents that his classmates or competitors in the command track don't. Lorca would never survive for long as a starship captain in the Picard era and the Starfleet brass of the late 24th century would remove him from command the minute he pulled even half the things he does in this series, but in the mid-23rd century and in the wake of crises and historic events like the Battle of Axanar it's clear that the Starfleet of this era operates on a larger grading curve and is willing to tolerate more questionable behavior from its high-ranking officers to get jobs done.

A captain sleeping with a charged phaser under his pillow might seem like paranoia and grounds for a competency hearing in TNG, but in this era of Federation history? Eh. Not so much. Not after what he's experienced.

I think its a valid response during a time of war, everyone should have access to a personal firearm at all times in case of an enemy boarding action.

 

[cooleddie74]

That, too. I think some of us may be projecting current day fears - legitimate though they are - about firearms and gun violence onto a fictional character living nearly 250 years from now, a man who's obviously dealing with the symptoms of PTSD and has undergone some pretty unpleasant and physically painful experiences while in uniform. This is a war and Discovery isn't all that far from the frontlines. She is the only surviving vessel with an experimental drive system that could change the course of both Federation and galactic history if it proves successful and her captain is a man who's been tortured by his enemies and has had a checkered history both emotionally and in terms of his physical health.

I think we can allow him to pull a phaser from underneath a pillow after waking up from a pretty intense dream.

 

[cultcross]

They had phasers in the kitchen in STVI.

In case of creme brulee I presume.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

They had phasers in the kitchen in STVI.

In case of creme brulee I presume.

Obviously swearing and carrying on like Gordon Ramsay wasn't enough for the Enterprise's chef to motivate his team.

 

[cooleddie74]

Have you tasted Scotty's haggis?

I'd keep several nuclear weapons in the galley if it kept him from cooking it.

 

[Rich]

Nah it's definitely the Klingons, Lorca is just the guy with the stones to fight them properly. You can't be a moral person and bring the results that win wars at the same time.

 

[Zod]

The klingons are clearly set up to be the bad guys. Their actions back it up. Lorca is troubled and obviously suffering from ptsd but is the leader of the good guys at war, which is seemingly exactly where he belongs.

How you can compare the two is beyond me. These are klingons without honor. Also the idea that Michael can go from convicted of treason to the captain chair in 15 episodes boggles the mind.

 

[Mudd]

Nah it's definitely the Klingons, Lorca is just the guy with the stones to fight them properly. You can't be a moral person and bring the results that win wars at the same time.

Why do so many people like to make these tough-sounding, would-be pragmatic statements about how wars are "won" and what hard-gained experience do all you steely-eyed realists bring to bear on such declarations?

You all general officers?

Here's one for you: real wars are not won by rogue ship commanders who ignore orders from the strategists and officers who are directing the course of battles and campaigns.

Yet, that's the kind of character that Star Trek routinely celebrates.

 

[Longinus]

They can both be bad guys. (But I really hope we get to see some even remotely sympathetic Klingons at some point.)

 

[Spider]

Lorca wears the uniform of the good guys, and kills bad guys, therefore he is a good guy, even if he isn't.