LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that great

[Garak007]

Having watched "Way of the Warrior" resently and did anyone notice that the torpedos from the so called upgraded weapon system did not hit the Klingon targets.

It seems to me that they were line of sight torpedos and you would of thought they had been homming torpedos comming from an upgraded system and those people controling the weapon systems and including those at Ops were crap aimers. LOL!

 

[EnsignRicky]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

That's because they were using plot seeking missiles.

 

[Jono]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

We must have been watching different episodes because I saw quite a few torpedoes hit their targets.

You could probably count the instants that the torpedoes actually appeared to track targets rather than just act like a dumbfire missile on one hand. STVI..."Message in a Bottle"..."For the Uniform"...

 

[Admiral Shran]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

The "new weapon systems" managed to fight a large Klingon fleet to a stalemate. I'd say they did their job quite well. Especially when considering that the station had virtually no defense systems before.

 

[Timo]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

...It did appear that the station's defenses frightened three Cardassian warships to inaction in "Emissary" already - and drove away a Romulan warbird in "Visionary".

Of course, we don't know if these early defenses ever existed for real, or were merely what the enemy supposed must have existed. In the uncut version of "Emissary", we learn that most of the station's armaments were indeed a bluff, and in "Way of the Warrior" the Klingons are in turn convinced that the very real armaments are another bluff! It's possible Sisko didn't have thousands of photon torpedoes targeted at the Romulans in "Visionary". Then again, it's quite possible he did.

Clearly some sort of a rearming was a Starfleet priority in "Emissary" already: it was mere weeks (days?) after the Cardassians had left, and still the station sported one functioning torpedo launcher and some phasers, all of which must have held a priority in the Cardassian list of Things to Sabotage Before Leaving. If this sort of rapid fitting were possible prior to the pilot episode, then Starfleet could easily have given Sisko the remaining torpedo launchers (one or two per each of the six weapons sails, I suppose) and a load of a few thousand torpedoes within the remainder of the first season.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Admiral Shran]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

It's possible Sisko didn't have thousands of photon torpedoes targeted at the Romulans in "Visionary".

Sisko claimed to have 50 photon torpedos targeted on the Warbird in Visionary. That's a far cry from the 5,000 he has at his command in The Way of the Warrior. IMO it's clear that a heavy amount of "rearming" was done between those episodes.

 

[G2309]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

It was an impressive upgrade considering the difficulties Obrien mentioned in the search.

 

[Garak007]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

Sorry my first post I wrote kind of wrong.

Yes we see torpedoes hit the Klingon targets and inflict damage to their fleet but there was a "heck" of a lot of torpedoes that went into empty space which lead me to think that the torpedoes were line of sight which again I think they could of done better.

 

[Kai Winn]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

what bothers me is that they seem to load those torpedoes with a little gun powder or new-years eve fireworks, when they alledgedly have yields far exceeding any nuke ever exploded on earth. the largest one with 50 megatons produced a fireball about 10 km across. first time i noticed it was in the good ole 'balance of terror', where a 500 megaton nuke detonated 50 or so metres from the enterprise. the ship shaked a little, and a china cup broke in the galley.

 

[Tosk]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

but there was a "heck" of a lot of torpedoes that went into empty space which lead me to think that the torpedoes were line of sight

Why wouldn't you just assume they were heading for ships that were off screen?

We see a POV of one of the torpedos weaving through the battle to hit a specific target, (if I remember correctly) so the more logical assumption would be that most of the torpedos were targeted, and any that really did miss their target were due to the amount of ships involved. They were defending themselves from a swarm of wasps, after all.

 

[indolover]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

The Way of the Warrior is a classic episode, but there are some holes in it. The point the OP has described is one of them lol.

I too have noticed that the photon torpodoes are launched wildly, as well as the phasers, which to me makes little sense since even though 5000 torpodoes is a heck of a lot (more than any Federation starship could carry) it makes no sense to waste them.

Whether Sisko and co would have held out, maybe. It would have depended how many Klingon ships the 6 Starfleet ships could have taken out before Gowron's reinforcements came on the scene. I guess also Sisko and co still had their armaments intact, so who knows?

 

[Garak007]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

The Way of the Warrior is a classic episode, but there are some holes in it. The point the OP has described is one of them lol.

Not has big hole as the so called Klingon boarding party that was at Ops where able to fight off we a few kicks.

 

[Praxius]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

Let's also not forget that even the torpedoes on starships do not always have a constant lock on a target.... This is probably a bad example on how they actually target, but the way they work on the game Star Trek Legacy, is that the further away a target is, the less accurate the target lock is.... the closer the target, the more of a solid lock the torpedo will have.

Certain phaser banks and torpedo bays were targeting certain ships.... it's typically wise to use phasers to take down the enemy's shields and then use Torpedoes to inflict greater damage to the ships hull, then compared to phasers.

One can only suspect that most of those torpedoes that flew off and perhaps didn't hit anything were targeting ships that were further out of range, but had their shields down, thus hoping to get some key impacts before their shields were restored, while risking a chance of not having a solid lock.

Just my guess though.

 

[Anwar]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

The funny thing (this maybe deliberate) was that Martok said that the DS9 defenses they detected must have been "duranium shadows" and "thoron fields" used for an illusion.

Those are the exact same things the DS9 crew used to bluff the Cardassians in Emissary!

 

[Tosk]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

^It was indeed deliberate.

 

[Cyke101]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

I too have noticed that the photon torpodoes are launched wildly, as well as the phasers, which to me makes little sense since even though 5000 torpodoes is a heck of a lot (more than any Federation starship could carry) it makes no sense to waste them.

The torpedoes maybe, even then we see quite a few torpedoes fly off screen, which may or may not be aimed at other targets; while you're right that we see torpedoes flying off into deep space away from the camera, as opposed to against the camera.

However, I don't think we saw the phasers truly miss like we see the torpedoes miss (fly off into deep space) in this episode.

 

[Timo]

Re: LOL! seems like the "New" weapon systems on DS9 were not that grea

Quite so - phaser hit rate in this episode seems to be the same 100% as everywhere else in Star Trek!

what bothers me is that they seem to load those torpedoes with a little gun powder or new-years eve fireworks, when they alledgedly have yields far exceeding any nuke ever exploded on earth.

That's a trend in today's warfare, too. Precision weapons that penetrate into the target and then go "poof" are a more effective way to kill the enemy than area weapons that detonate near the target with a "KABOOOOOM!!!!" - not to mention that the "poof" warheads are easier and cheaper to carry around than the "KABOOOOOM!!!!" ones, and are gradually becoming cheaper to manufacture as well.

If a hundred-megaton nuke detonated next to Kirk's ship indeed barely manages to break a teacup, then there's probably little sense in building a thousand-megaton one, for the total gain of ten broken teacups. Far better to design torpedoes that actually hit the target, and penetrate its shields, and go "poof" inside.

...Also, there's the fun Trek-specific rationalization for using tiny warheads: those warheads are made of the same stuff as the propulsive fuel of the torpedo and of the ship. So the most economic way to bring down the enemy might be to first use torps that dedicate 90% of the antimatter to propulsion and maneuvering (so that they can hit the maneuvering enemy), and firing enough of those that the enemy slows down; then continue with torps that have 50% antimatter in the warhead, to bring the enemy to a halt; and then deliver a mercy shot where 90% of the antimatter is in the explosive yield, and only 10% is given to the propulsive system (which could not hit a moving target, but can easily hit this crippled one).

Timo Saloniemi