Spoilers Loki season 2-- spoilers and discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Turtletrekker, Sep 18, 2023.

  1. Avalon

    Avalon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The title card for the opening of the scene said, "London, UK Sacred Timeline". (It also said the year, I think, but I don't remember what that was.)
     
  2. MikHutch

    MikHutch Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So Brad is just making things up?

    Or maybe the TVA did take people from the Sacred Timeline too
     
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  3. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    1977
     
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  4. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    I think the Sacred Timeline is less of a "line" and more of a "braid." Any timeline that ends up with the He Who Remains version of Kang (or no Kang at all) would count and, thus, be safe from being trimmed. The TVA's systems and instruments would all treat them as one timeline, but in reality, it would be innumerable similar ones that all fit that criteria.
     
  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I want the final scene of the series to be Moebius driving a jet ski into the sunset.
     
  6. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm gonna be disappointed if it isn't.
     
  7. MikHutch

    MikHutch Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Final scene should be Mobius sacrificing his jet ski to stop Kang
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I'm afraid this season isn't doing it for me. I didn't care for this episode much. Majors's performance as Victor Timely was too broad and annoying; he had some moments of nuance and poignancy, but they were buried under too many tics and weird speech rhythms. And the story was too cluttered, with multiple factions fighting over the guy even when some of them had the same goals for him and the excuses for why they didn't work together were tenuous. First, you've got Loki/Mobius and Renslayer both wanting to bring Timely back to the TVA but Renslayer refusing to trust Loki even when the fate of the multiverse is immediately at stake. Then you've got Sylvie stopping Renslayer from being on the verge of killing Timely so Sylvie can kill Timely. Huh? And that weird thing with Miss Minutes wanting a body so she could be her creator's variant's lover. That's weirdly sexist, assuming that an AI that just happens to present as female would therefore be motivated primarily by the desire for a heterosexual romantic relationship with the male authority figure in her life. (And since He Who Remains created her, it also feels kind of incestuous.)

    Also, why does Miss Minutes assume that a black-and-white 1930s cartoon appearance would be less anachronistic in 1868 than a 1940s cartoon appearance in color? And speaking of anachronisms, Timely's use of the phrase "science fiction" is apparently not the anachronism I thought it was: https://sfdictionary.com/view/209/science-fiction
     
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  9. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, the whole Miss Minutes wants a body so she can bang Timely thing was kinda weird and creepy.
    Other than that, I enjoyed this one.
    After all the set up it was nice to see what Renslayer and Miss Minutes were up to. It definitely looks like they're setting them up to be the Big Bads for the season.
    I was a little confused by what exactly Miss Minutes was up with her and He Who Remains plans for Timely. They seem to be setting him to create the TVA, and become He Who Remains, but if he's another variant, then I don't see what that would accomplish, since He Who Remains will/already has created the TVA and all of that.
    Timely was definitely not what I expected for a Kang variant.
    Moebuis and Loki's little sight seeing tour while they were looking for Renslayer and Miss Minutes was fun, and it even got us reference to Baldar.
     
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  10. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Overall, I think S2 is great.

    My biggest problem with this week's episode is why Sylvie let Renslayer go with Miss Minutes. I'm prepared for the possibility of there being foreknowledge that it is the right thing to do, but it's niggling.

    Also, who pruned Loki from the future back in S2E1? I wanna know!

    P.S. Miss Minutes's 19th century appearance was hilarious, especially her ghost costume.
     
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  11. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Renslayer wasn't going to kill him, just assert control.
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Right, and also a letdown. I thought she was asking for a body so that she could go out into the world and wreak her master plan for multiversal conquest or something, but instead it was a stock female-character motive left over from half a century ago, and it had no payoff beyond general ickiness.

    I'm guessing the idea is that they want a variant that they can control and mold to become as much like HWR as possible, so he can restore the status quo of HWR holding the line to defend the "Sacred Timeline" at the expense of all the others. Renslayer said the TVA has become a total mess since she left, so I guess she and MM figure they need to restore a strong authority figure at the top, and they want to mold Victor into that by shaping his journey through life.

    The scene of Loki and Mobius watching Timely's presentation was the same as the post-credit scene from Quantumania, right? I remember that scene being a bit different, with them seated in a theater, but I could be misremembering.
     
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  13. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    Did Sylvie know she had Miss Minutes with her?

    I enjoyed it, becomes more Who like all the time but that's no bad thing. I actually liked Majors' performance.
     
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  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There's nothing like a pat-down, just to be sure. It's not like Sylvie didn't know TVA devices could do all kinds of mischief, which she is the goddess of, by the way.
     
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  15. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I thought this was a step up from Episode 2. At least it felt like a real episode of a TV show (not a morass of nothing) and didn't have any morally-repugnant "torture works" message.

    That said, the show is floundering. It seems like it went through hella edits in the writer's room which made it nigh-incomprehensible, or else they originally intended for a longer-run series and it was cut back to the bone, with needed linking scenes gone.

    As others have noted, character motivations make little sense here. Why is Renslayer so opposed to working with Loki and Moebius? She says that Loki killed He Who Remains with Sylvie, but we know that's false, and I don't know how she would have heard this rumor anyway, given she's been off on her own. Why has Sylvie pivoted from wanting to be left alone to killing this Kang variant? Why does Miss Minutes want to fuck He Who Remains? Why has Loki transformed into a joyless defender of the TVA, with no edge left at all? Why can't anyone just sit down and have a real conversation where they listen to one another?

    This is typical serialized wheel-spinning. There's not enough meat on the bones of the season, so they're filling in a movie-length story with worthless padding which isn't telling us anything narratively interesting about the themes of season 1 (like the issue of free will). Yet at the same time, it feels like there's notable gaps in the narrative between each episode, as if linking vignettes were cut entirely. So it's both too long and too short.

    Maybe it's going to close well, but I expect next week will be more of the same slow-paced, wheel-spinning dreck. It's a shame to see it fell so far, but they both swapped writers and directors, so it's not surprising it feels like a completely different show.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I thought that was clear enough -- she sees all Kang variants (or rather, He Who Remains variants) as threats to the life she's made and wants to be left alone in.


    Again, fairly clear, if cliched -- she'd been his partner from the beginning, the being who was closest to him throughout her existence, so it was natural enough that she'd feel deep attachment to him, as lazy as it was to assume it had to be romantic love.


    Now, that's a good question. I can get him being motivated primarily by, y'know, preventing the annihilation of all existence including himself, but he does seem to have become a company man rather abruptly, talking about the TVA as if he truly believes in it.


    Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it often does lead to a show losing its original focus. And Loki season 1 had such a distinct approach and voice that bringing in other people to try to replicate it was an iffy proposition.
     
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  17. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    morass
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I just realized one other thing that bothered me about Majors's performance as Timely. The character was meant to be a hustler, a con artist. So shouldn't he have a smooth, ingratiating delivery instead of that off-puttingly slow, staccato voice? It makes it an even stranger performance choice.
     
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  19. Rich Watson

    Rich Watson Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Putting aside all the other stuff I have to ask... why the hell did anyone ever think Jonathan Majors was a good actor?
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I think he's pretty good for the most part, except when he puts on these hammy personas like Timely or the alter-Kangs in the Quantumania post-credits scene. Like a lot of actors, he probably just needs a good director to rein in his indulgences.
     
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