Logos, logos and some more logos...

[The Axeman]

What's brought on the B5 frenzy then Rev old chum? Not like you to veer off the Trek and Marvel route too often.

[hijack]
I actually made a special backdrop for a friend on another forum a week or two ago. He turned out to be a big Babylon 5 fan and asked if i could do something with Bab 5 overtones. I went a little further and gave him his own personal Starfury. His moniker is 'Madjock', by the way...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2535/4103043633_3927fcab10_o.jpg

[/hijack]

 

[Reverend]

Bloody hell, where did you pop up from?!

I've actually been on a B5 kick for a while now. Trek has sort of run it's course for me from a doodling spaceships & logos POV and I do still tinker with the comic book stuff from time to time. As far as the B5 stuff goes, it's been mostly born of my disappointment when I recently had a look at what few B5 fansites were left and found the material to be wanting, at best and at worst, badly written RPG centric rubbish. Since B5's online presence is drastically diminished, I thought I'd do a little historical preservation work before all these logos end up going for stupid money as badly made knock-off patches on eBay. I've also been fiddling around with the wikia, but thay was mostly just to keep my typing skills up while I'm job hunting (again.)

Nice render BTW.

 

[Reverend]

Anyone care to participate in a little experiment?

I recently designed a new logo for the B5 Wikia, but the admin had a terrible time trying to upload the thing. No matter what he did he kept seeing the old one in it's place (even after a cache clear) and for my part, it appears to alternate between my new one and the old one, apparantly at random.

So if anyone has a spare 2 mins, have a look here, click around a few random articles and see if the logo on the left stays the same or if it changes at all. I'm curious to see if this is a bug with the wikia or just our caches playing silly buggers.

 

[Captain Robert April]

It might help if we saw some examples of the old and new logos.

 

[The Axeman]

I have to say I was never a fan of B5, it looked cheap & nasty next to the $1,000,000 an episode TNG. I caught some of an episode of it on Sky last night, and it just reconfirmed my opinion of it.

Still, I was shocked at how little B5 stuff still remains on the internet. When I was asked to make that B5 wallpaper I thought it would be the work of 2 minutes to download the models and set up the scene. Lightwave 3D made it's name doing the visuals for Bab-5 and there was always a ton of related models and stuff online for it. Now it's rare to find any decent models or info, so much so that when I reopened my model site I made sure that all my mates B5 stuff was put up first.

 

[Reverend]

It might help if we saw some examples of the old and new logos.

Right. This is what the new one should look like.

I have to say I was never a fan of B5, it looked cheap & nasty next to the $1,000,000 an episode TNG. I caught some of an episode of it on Sky last night, and it just reconfirmed my opinion of it.

Still, I was shocked at how little B5 stuff still remains on the internet. When I was asked to make that B5 wallpaper I thought it would be the work of 2 minutes to download the models and set up the scene. Lightwave 3D made it's name doing the visuals for Bab-5 and there was always a ton of related models and stuff online for it. Now it's rare to find any decent models or info, so much so that when I reopened my model site I made sure that all my mates B5 stuff was put up first.

Kenny, I had no idea you'd be so shallow to judge a show by it's production values and effects! Some of the best shows ever made had wobbly cardboard sets and some slightly naff acting.
As far as the CG goes, yeah the early stuff is very ropey but it comes in leaps and bounds over time. So much so that by the end of the 3rd or 4th season Star Trek had poached their people and made the switch from models to CG. It might be worth keeping in mind that the early early stuff was all rendered on a bunch of old Amigas. If I remember it right, the idea at the time was that they could either spend x-amount on one or two really powerful (circa 1994) machines or on a bunch of not so powerful, but can collectively whack out more footage at a time.

If you really want to see some (more or less) up to date CG have a look at this little clip. Mind you, youtube's resolution doesn't do it much justice.

Still however cheep it might have looked, B5's real strength was in it's characters and story, something Trek had increasing problems with, no matter how pretty it looked.

 

[The Axeman]

I originally saw B5 in the US when it first came out, and it looked much worse on US format tellys than it did on our PAL sets. When I saw it here it didn't look quite so bad. It wasn't just that I didn't like the wallpaper however, I didn't much care for the whole thing.

My friends were rabid B5 fans but the stories just didn't grab me for some reason, and they chinned me mercilessly for preferring old fashioned Trek with it's seperate episodes. Thing is, it didn't really matter if you missed an episode or two, but it could matter a lot with B5 and you couldn't be bothered getting back into it. The terrible acting in the first series also did it no favours, but to be fair they did ditch Commander Plywood fairly smartly for someone who had more than one expression.

I also had an issue with JMS and his writing. He really seemed to be making it up as he went along, yet always tried to maintain he was creating a huge story arc. Garbage, as he had no idea how long the show might last, and like Lost it took off unexpectedly and he was scrabbling to make crap up. It was more soap opera than serial, which did not endear it to me. What can I say, it just never got me interested.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I'm only seeing the newer logo.

 

[Reverend]

I originally saw B5 in the US when it first came out, and it looked much worse on US format tellys than it did on our PAL sets. When I saw it here it didn't look quite so bad. It wasn't just that I didn't like the wallpaper however, I didn't much care for the whole thing.

My friends were rabid B5 fans but the stories just didn't grab me for some reason, and they chinned me mercilessly for preferring old fashioned Trek with it's seperate episodes. Thing is, it didn't really matter if you missed an episode or two, but it could matter a lot with B5 and you couldn't be bothered getting back into it. The terrible acting in the first series also did it no favours, but to be fair they did ditch Commander Plywood fairly smartly for someone who had more than one expression.

I also had an issue with JMS and his writing. He really seemed to be making it up as he went along, yet always tried to maintain he was creating a huge story arc. Garbage, as he had no idea how long the show might last, and like Lost it took off unexpectedly and he was scrabbling to make crap up. It was more soap opera than serial, which did not endear it to me. What can I say, it just never got me interested.

B5 fans can get a little rabid at times - not quite as bad as some browncoats, but along the same lines - so that alone has been known to put people off. I have to admit it took me a while to get into B5 at first and it didn't help that it was usually on at stupid o'clock at night on channel 4 and I'm sure I missed most of the first half of the first season, but by the end of the second season I was hooked and wouldn't miss a single one.

From an acting standpoint, I think the worst offenders were usually the guest characters ('By Any Means Necessary' & 'Legacies' spring to mind) plus as I recall they had at least one director in season one that they had to sack for some reason or another, so that can't have helped.

As far as the "pre-planned arc" goes, I think there's a lot of innocent misconception surrounding that. Mostly down to what degree things were plotted out in advance and how flexible it was. JMS did say that he intentionally wrote in several trap-doors and loop-holes that allowed almost any character to be dropped or replaced, with their arc moved over to someone else if real world circumstances dictated. Something that was done on quite a few occasions, not just with Sinclair but Lyta, Talia, Nakashima from the pilot, Draal, Na'Toth & her predecessor...others. Plus of course there was the point where it looked as if the forth season would be the last one, which resulted in a little compression get get things tied up, followed by the 11th hour save by TNT and the somewhat spread out fifth season.
It certainly wasn't as tightly plotted as some fans like to claim, but he certainly wasn't making it all up as he went along. There was defiantly some slight of hand involved in making certain elements gel together in ways other than they were intended, but not that often.

I think the basic essence of the story remained what JMS had intended from the onset but some pieces did get shuffled about a bit and as far as I can tell he's been pretty open about that fact. I think part of the problem stems from the aforementioned rabid fans defending their favourite show just a little too much.

Still, I can certainly appreciate that it's not to everyone's taste, but just have a look at the other threads on here tagged "Babylon 5" and see just how many people are watching it now for the first time and getting hooked. I think if you're willing to give it the benefit of the doubt it'll grow on you.

Like the new site BTW, I'd forgotten how many of those things I'd done the image maps for!

I'm only seeing the newer logo.

Thanks for that. I'm getting the same reports from Flare too so it much be a cache thing. Buggered if I know where it's hiding though, I've cleared it a dozen times ran searches for manual deletions, disabled, bypassed and refreshed the cache with no effect and for some odd reason, my laptop is having the same problem.

Perhaps it has something to do with my wiki login, but I can't see how that would work!

 

[The Axeman]

Like the new site BTW, I'd forgotten how many of those things I'd done the image maps for!

We were a bit prolific back in the day, eh? I reckon I've got about half to two thirds of my stuff on line again, but there's still more to come from my mate as well.

I still cant draw a line in photoshop for toffee. I'm uploading a fair few models to my 'spares & repairs' section purely because I cant be arsed to try and detail them with image maps.

 

[Reverend]

Well we certainly started a lot of projects, though you can probably count on one hand the number we actually finished.

For the record, I can't deal with photoshop either. A few months back I had to help my brother out with a logo for a client (he was working at a sign maker at the time) and it took me an hour to do in photoshop what it'd take me 2mins to do in PSP. Something about Adobe that just feels clumsy, I have no idea how it managed to become the industry standard.

 

[The Axeman]

I love it for working on my photos, but for simply drawing a line it cant hold a candle to PSP.

 

[Owen E Oulton]

And while I'm at it, I've begun a chart of the various EF uniforms, though it's still sketchy in places and I'm not 100% sure what some of them are for.

These are great! I'm doing up a page for B5 RPGing. Do you mind if I use this as a basis for a page on B5 uniforms, with credit given, of course?

CFN, O

 

[Reverend]

You necro'd my six year old thread just to say that because why exactly?

 

[Blip]

Don't be obtuse. Reverend started the thread, thus it is 'his'.

And it is considered bad manners to necropost.

 

[Blip]

You cannot tell me you've been here long enough to attain "commander" and you don't know what necroposting is; that's simply absurd.

However, under the dubious possibility that you are in fact ignorant of the term, allow me to enlighten you: You've essentially raised this thread from the dead, because it's so ridiculously long since the last time anyone posted. Hence necroposting.

I should point out though, it is also generally considered bad form to post your own works in someone else's thread without their consent.

 

[gazomg]

Why would I lie ?

I did not know what necroposting is, never heard the phrase in my life and had to google it.

As for the bumping, I was searching the web for a terran universe logo which I intended to make and was looking for a guideline and the image I found was in this thread, posted on the previous page, and when i saw that others were posting logos I assumed it would be okay for I to do the same.

Instead I get the "this is my thread " attitude, had I known he was gonna be so uptight and controlling I would not have posted the link.

The point remains, had the previous members been told like i was told that it was not ok to post then i would not have posted, instead some would rather pounce upon my post that was not intended to cause hassle.
Not sure why my post was singled out while others who freely posted without a mention.

Perhaps deleting the post and pming me might have been a better way all around, as my intention was never to antagonize anyone or take from the good work done by others.

 

[E-DUB]

What? No patch for the "Andorian Mining Consortium"?

 

[Reverend]

I don't care that you did it in "my" thread, I'm just confused as to why you'd bother necro'ing such an old thread just to post a link to another thread on the same sub-board. I don't get it.

I'm also confused at the extremely defensive attitude to such a simple question.

 

[Finn]

You cannot tell me you've been here long enough to attain "commander" and you don't know what necroposting is; that's simply absurd.

I've been here for nearly 8 years and I don't know what "necroposting" is.

If gazmog is breaking the rules, let the mods worry about it. Besides there are long running threads whose OP hadn't been around for a number of years.