Living Witness

[BarryWaddle]

So I'm watching Living Witness yesterday, cuz I'm still transferring stuff to DVD, and the episode struck me as very odd...I mean it obviously was a "what if" kind of episode...But The Doctor is in it...Shouldn't it have been at the end of the series, and had Picardo written out of the finale? Or does Voyager have multiple copies of the EMH in it's computer, so one copy stayed on the planet for a millenia, and the other stayed on Voyager? That baffles me every time I watch it.

Ideas? Or am I just over-analyzing Trek again?

 

[Akiraprise]

The backup copy of the EMH was stolen and left on the planet for eons. The normal Voyager EMH continued on the journey home.

Of course this defies a previous episode where they were unable to create a backup copy of the EMH because it was too complicated.

 

[Michael]

Best. Voyager. Episode. Ever.

 

[kimc]

The backup copy of the EMH was stolen and left on the planet for eons. The normal Voyager EMH continued on the journey home.

Of course this defies a previous episode where they were unable to create a backup copy of the EMH because it was too complicated.

Indeed it does which made it hard for me to enjoy the episode as much as I probably should have.

 

[DanCPA]

Of course this defies a previous episode where they were unable to create a backup copy of the EMH because it was too complicated.

Maybe it is VERY complicated and time consuming... In later episodes, they weren't able to "copy" the EMH because it was too time consuming.

Or perhaps, they stole an attempt at copying the EMH which had failed and were able to make it work with their superior holo-tech. In fact, this makes more sense. We have seen Janeway go out of her insane little head to try to get back federation technology... but if they stole something that doesn't work... likely it wasn't worth going back

 

[Anwar]

It's easy, in between episodes they found out how to make 1 backup copy and it was stolen by the Kyrians.

 

[Guy Gardener]

29th century codecs.

The programming used in the mobile emitter would have taught B'Elanna how to move and store masses of information most efficiently. Which completely trumps the tech they thought was the apex in eye of the needle when the doctor claimed to be integrated into the ship, or life signs when he described the size of his program.


At first glance, I thought i was going to be watching a mirror universe story, i was so full of pep, and then i was let down quite hard... But it was still the best episode fo Voyager ever made, and the series finale, if only played a touch out of order.

 

[JNG]

Memory Alpha has a few points on its episode page to address this question, which I hope I do not violate any rules by reproducing here:

• This episode suggests that it is possible to make a backup copy of the Doctor. However, in many other episodes (e.g., VOY: "Blink of an Eye", "Life Line") it appears that his program will be lost forever if it is transferred and cannot return. This may be because the backup module was lost (as explained in this episode) and therefore unusable.
• Depending on one's viewpoint, this episode either flatly contradicts or firmly upholds the events of VOY: "Message in a Bottle". In that episode, Harry Kim's efforts to make a new version of The Doctor fail. The presence of the EMH backup module in this episode means that either Harry had no need to make a copy of the Doctor or that his failed efforts to do so prompted the creation of the module. The determinative question never directly answered by any episode of the series is whether Voyager launched with this technology on board.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

You know, I just about drooled myself to death seeing Janeway like that.

Oh man... just...


As far as the doc goes, I just had to let this one go. I figured that, since that gave me this Janeway, I could suspend my disbelief about the fact that the EMH isn't suppose to have a backup.

 

[Timo]

One should note that there is absolutely no evidence in "Living Witness" about when exactly the backup EMH was left behind. The episode itself takes place in the far future, and there is no specific reason to think that its flashbacks to the 24th century should take place exactly between "Unforgettable" and "Demon" merely because the episode as aired sits in that slot.

So it would be trivially easy to say that the means of backing up the EMH were discovered only long after those episodes where said backup is implied or stated to be impossible or difficult to create. For all we know, the EMH backup was first created on the fourteenth season of the show, a season lamentably erased by future Janeway's meddling in "Endgame".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[nx1701g]

^ Exactly. For all we know the events of Living Witness may have happened in Season 7.

 

[Timo]

...The only limiting factor in the future direction would be that an incorrect reproduction of Neelix is seen in the museum records - this wouldn't happen post-"Homestead", at least not in the main timeline, so season 7 is the last possibility. Perhaps our heroes learned how to make backups by that season.

The chief limiting factor in the past direction is that Kes is gone and Seven is there in her place. But we might speculate that the incident took place early on in season 4, and involved a unique backup module which was lost for good and thus left the EMH copy-incapable by the time of "Message in a Bottle".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I don't think that's too limiting. Remember, a great deal of their 'historical' information was completely wrong, if not partially. It's very plausable that they put Neelix being there 14 years into Voyager's journey home even though he was not there for that length of time.

Think about it. We often date things as being from between x & y period because we can't get an exact date on it. There are times when there's something as big as a 10 year gap there.

 

[DanCPA]

Well, Q says something about humans not supposed to be the DQ for another hundred years... So, I wonder if these people ever met the real federation?

 

[Timo]

It's very plausable that they put Neelix being there 14 years into Voyager's journey home even though he was not there for that length of time.

How would they even learn about Neelix' existence, though? All the other characters mistreated in their "records" were presumably present for real originally, rather than phantoms dug up from the EMH's memories. After all, the point was that the EMH's memories had not been utilized in accuratizing the records...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DanCPA]

I haven't seen the episode in a while, but didn't we see Kazon and other aliens aboard Voyager too?

 

[Anwar]

Yep, we see a Kazon on the Bridge as a "forced conscript" as well as Seven of Nine's "Attack Borg" Squad.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

It's very plausable that they put Neelix being there 14 years into Voyager's journey home even though he was not there for that length of time.

How would they even learn about Neelix' existence, though? All the other characters mistreated in their "records" were presumably present for real originally, rather than phantoms dug up from the EMH's memories. After all, the point was that the EMH's memories had not been utilized in accuratizing the records...

Timo Saloniemi

If you'll note, history is often rewritten once we figure someone or something wasn't actually there. We just thought there were based on what we knew via context clues. I'd say that is what happened here.

 

[IndiMan]

Maybe it is VERY complicated and time consuming... In later episodes, they weren't able to "copy" the EMH because it was too time consuming.

I suppose that is possible, but to me it just comes off as lazy writing

 

[Smiley]

Just imagine that a good technobabble reason for the Doctor's appearance on the planet got distorted by historians who created the final simulation in the episode. There is no contradiction, just undisclosed facts.

By the way, "Living Witness" rocks!