"Live Long and Prosper" - Meaning

[MAGolding]

This discussion rmeminds me of a novel, Wasp, 1957, by Eric Frank Russell, in which the human protagonist is disguised as a Sirian to infiltrate Sirius during a war. In one scene he checks tnto a seedy, run-down hotel.

The bored desk clerk gives the usual Sirian greeting of "Live long". in a tone which shows the clerk couldn't less whether the protagonist lived for centuries or dropped dead that very moment.

 

[T'Bonz]

Vulcan Curse: Die short and poor...

Note my signature.

 

[fireproof78]

 

[Swedish Borg]

Don't forget that there is another one: "We come to serve."

 

[fireproof78]

I prefer the Capellan one.

 

[Swedish Borg]

I prefer the Capellan one.

Which is?

 

[fireproof78]

Which is?

We come with open hearts and hands.

 

[Swedish Borg]

We come with open hearts and hands.

I remember them now. They think the weak should perish.

 

[fireproof78]

I remember them now. They think the weak should perish.

So did Spartans, yet we still value Greek culture and philosophy.

 

[Boris Skrbic]

I don't know if "Long Live" was Gene's original intention and Leonard Nimoy just wouldn't say it that way,

“Live long and prosper” occurs in the “Amok Time” script revision dated 6/5/67, so I suspect that Theodore Sturgeon made it a Vulcan greeting as part of that story (@Harvey and/or @Maurice could probably say more), but you can find the phrase in books as early as 1674.

 

[Swedish Borg]

So did Spartans, yet we still value Greek culture and philosophy.

That's a bit inaccurate. We value Athenian culture but the Athenians despised the Spartans. The Spartans had no culture to speak of. They were to the Ancient Greek what the Nazis were to the Germans. A people essentially oriented toward war and death. They would check the stamina of babies and the ones that didn't measure up were thrown off a cliff. I am not even sure the Nazis had something like that.

 

[Scott Kellogg]

Really? Because people don't grow in other ways?

Well, I've gained a couple pounds so the common usage of "Prosper" as "Grow Physically" doesn't sound appealing.

And if you mean "Grow mentally" then "Live Long and Grow Up" is an insult, not a wish for good fortune!

Now, the word "Prosper" is not one that gets used in conversation much.
Consider the way do use words like "Prosper" in actual conversations:

"This land is prosperous" means that the soil is fertile and will support plant an animal life.
"This plant is prosperous" means a plant that grows and spreads like Kudzu.
"That person is prosperous" would mean something more financial than not. A well paying job, a nice house, a new car, etc.
"That family is prosperous" usually means they have a lot of kids.

So, I really don't see Prosperity being something associated with mental pursuits.
Intellectualism and wisdom are not generally associated with Prosperity.
One does not go into science with the idea of being Prosperous.
Learning, yes, but Prosperity? No.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Well, I've gained a couple pounds so the common usage of "Prosper" as "Grow Physically" doesn't sound appealing.

And if you mean "Grow mentally" then "Live Long and Grow Up" is an insult, not a wish for good fortune!

Now, the word "Prosper" is not one that gets used in conversation much.
Consider the way do use words like "Prosper" in actual conversations:

"This land is prosperous" means that the soil is fertile and will support plant an animal life.
"This plant is prosperous" means a plant that grows and spreads like Kudzu.
"That person is prosperous" would mean something more financial than not. A well paying job, a nice house, a new car, etc.
"That family is prosperous" usually means they have a lot of kids.

So, I really don't see Prosperity being something associated with mental pursuits.
Intellectualism and wisdom are not generally associated with Prosperity.
One does not go into science with the idea of being Prosperous.
Learning, yes, but Prosperity? No.

I'm inclined to agree. Plus, there is the precedent of Spock posing as a traveling salesman in "Errand of Mercy." Vulcans in business are common enough not to arouse suspicion, and they do it to prosper materially, which in a material world (per Madonna) is only logical.

 

[fireproof78]

Now, the word "Prosper" is not one that gets used in conversation much.

You and I must have different conversations. I use prosper a lot and basically use it like "be successful."

That's a bit inaccurate. We value Athenian culture but the Athenians despised the Spartans. The Spartans had no culture to speak of. They were to the Ancient Greek what the Nazis were to the Germans. A people essentially oriented toward war and death. They would check the stamina of babies and the ones that didn't measure up were thrown off a cliff. I am not even sure the Nazis had something like that.

So, you're saying there can be variety in a people and we find some things we can agree with and some things we don't? Interesting.

 

[Maurice]

There was another version of that (in Starlog I think) where it was "Die and decay immediately."

 

[Swedish Borg]

....
So, you're saying there can be variety in a people and we find some things we can agree with and some things we don't? Interesting.

"Can be" doesn't mean that there is.

 

[Swedish Borg]

Well, I've gained a couple pounds so the common usage of "Prosper" as "Grow Physically" doesn't sound appealing.

And if you mean "Grow mentally" then "Live Long and Grow Up" is an insult, not a wish for good fortune!

Now, the word "Prosper" is not one that gets used in conversation much.
Consider the way do use words like "Prosper" in actual conversations:

"This land is prosperous" means that the soil is fertile and will support plant an animal life.
"This plant is prosperous" means a plant that grows and spreads like Kudzu.
"That person is prosperous" would mean something more financial than not. A well paying job, a nice house, a new car, etc.
"That family is prosperous" usually means they have a lot of kids.

So, I really don't see Prosperity being something associated with mental pursuits.
Intellectualism and wisdom are not generally associated with Prosperity.
One does not go into science with the idea of being Prosperous.
Learning, yes, but Prosperity? No.

"Prosperous" is often used about material success, Indeed. I've never heard it used to talk about romantic or intellectual success.

 

[Qonundrum]

Wait, I thought it was "live long and perspire," as in work hard all your life.

Or sitting in a sauna? Must smell real nice after a few days of uninterrupted steaming...

 

[fireproof78]

"Can be" doesn't mean that there is.

As my uncle would say "Some people exist if only to be an example of what not to do."

"Prosperous" is often used about material success, Indeed. I've never heard it used to talk about romantic or intellectual success.

Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Largely because that's how me, my family and friend utilize it.

 

[BK613]

""There's a sign on the wall but she wants to be sure, 'cause you know sometimes words have two meanings."